True. It seems more intune with some of the very hard decisions he will be facing in months to come.

 

In the Comics, Shane is dead and not over shadowing Rick. The things done to protect the group by this point was done by Rick. Rick does enter a dark period but that is down the road.

 

Exactly, that is why I always say Comics Rick is the combination of TV Rick and TV Shane, for example, TV Rick will not shot that Dexter, he will at least try to reason with him first, the Comics Rick shot him without second thought.

 

Shane has done a lot, but without thinking it through. Impulsive which causes more problems and I think he does it for Lori. Rick is more thinking before and after the action and does it for his family. they both have done a lot to ensure their survival. The walkers have gotten in the way along with some idiots now.

 

Exactly! In fact I think the biggest reason many do not like him is due to his involvement with Lori (which also affects Rick if they are a Rick fan). If we removed the whole Lori thing from the mix, and he was just a friend and never got involved with her at all, I suspect there would be a major difference in how he was looked at in general. He is neither the a devil or a saint. He's a human that sometimes does good things, other times bad things, while trying to survive in a world such as this.

 

Zambi, your points to Shane are astute. Perhaps the producers deliberately created Shane as a character that would be loved or hated (he is nuanced but the writers were clumsy in their presentation of that nuance and ham-handed in the portrayal of the Lori affair)? By creating such a character, they have one whom many viewers have an emotional investment in; thus these "horns or halo" POVs.

In one way I can understand this tactic but to me, personally, it cheapens any art form when it is created obviously for the sake of the audience. I think a work is much more authentic when used to convey the message of the artist. Somewhere along the line, even the comics themselves fell into this state of being, and now the whole thing seems almost...predictable? If you've seen The Wire, then you realize the beauty of telling a story for the sake of the story, and how much more depth the audience is then able to gain from the work.

 

Exactly! Personally, I tend to lean to not liking him, but that's only because of what I mentioned, the whole dealing with Lori (which I like her much less for). But at the same time, I have mixed feelings about him. I find myself applauding some of his moves, and other times thinking "Oh come on Shane, THINK!" lol The latest thing I think he did totally right that he got tied to a whipping post over was lie to Lori about Rick and company being safe back at the barn. Some may not agree but how the hell else was he suppose to get that wandering idiot back at the barn? Personally, I would have liked to have seen more of him in context of him being totally over Lori, as some of the mistakes I felt made were more or less Lori driven. It would have been a nice change from the comics to see him not involved with this woman anymore, but rather able to concentrate more on the survival techniques.

 

You should watch some David Lynch films.

 

Shane's attachment and now "obsession" with Lori is understandable- but only to those who have experience and/or think on it. For the vast majority of viewers, it is inexplicable, particularly as portrayed in the clumsy writing.

Consider: There is ZERO evidence to suggest Shane and Lori had any type of pre-ZA relationship besides a familial one. Shane is Rick's best friend; as close as a brother. Shane tries to save Rick- cannot- saves his family. During the madness of the ZA onset there is the ever present realization that life can be snatched by man or beast at any moment and they would experience mind twisting horrors. They are, to each other, the only "good" left and Shane would- and probably did- do unthinkable acts to preserve that for BOTH their sakes. Shot little kids as they crawled to him, in his policeman's uniform, eyes filled with uncomprehending terror after their own mother just bit them on the leg. Passed bodies on the street that screamed and pled as three others ate them alive. Witnessed men shoot others in the face over a gallon of milk or a box of foodstuffs. In this horror Lori and Carl become the only things Shane lives for, else he would have long ago eaten his own service weapon. She reciprocates these feelings, understandably, for just after her husband is hospitatlized in a coma she is thrust into this nightmare. Her mind might have shut down completely had she not had Shane there to remind her of what it was to be human and alive. And she most certainly would have died, or turned into a zombie and attacked her own son, had Shane not been there (that last thought horrifies her). So, their relationship is an abnormal one- forged under extreme stress and in fact actually is the only reason for their both being. A syndrome has been noted in soldiers in hot zones and utilized by commanders. They are urged to carry photos of girlfriends, wives, children- something that connects them to the world back home and gives them a reason to go on after seeing their battle buddies bodies ripped apart by IEDs and living daily under the threat of death. POWs also do this, fixing in their mind the faces of their loved ones and finding the will to go on only through the anticipation of reunion. And then some get home to find they have chased a ghost. The one they lived for didn't live for them. This (while not publicized) is so common it has a slang term in the armed forces and is the known (though not officially acknowledged) cause of many murder/suicides and other "insane" behavior of returning soldiers. An infantry soldier who returns from a year-long deployment in Afghanistan to find his wife or girlfriend a few months pregnant could be a model for Jon Bernthal and so Shane's character in TWD television series does make sense when one considers this.

The problem is that TWD did not provide any back story, no context, and so, to the lay viewer, Lori and Shane jumped in the sack and Rick be damned. Then, they completely mishandle Lori following Rick's re-emergence on the scene. See Homeland for a more plausible portrayal of a very similar situation. So, now to many, Lori's a whore and Shane's an addle brained idiot who can't get over her.

But the reality is much more complex. It just requires the viewer think since the story didn't provide.


NOTE: Just because Shane's behaviour can be understood and he can be sympathized with, does not mean it can be allowed to compromise security.

 

Actually they did provide enough back story & context to clue the viewer in. As someone who didn't read the comics, it's dead on with my interpretation, and some others.

People these days just aren't into thinking, bro. Unfortunately, this post - the most excellent in this forum's history - is all for naught.

 

I'll be honest. I don't like Shane because I don't like his type of personality in real life. A cavemen. Solves his problems by hitting things rather than thinking them through. He is a corrosive element within the group, and therefore his sum total contribution is negative. As far as what we have seen actually on camera, and not assumed, Glenn has done more for the group than Shane.

Shane is a good shot. Apparently in the beginning, he kept the group together. That being said, in the long run he has shown his methods to be highly dangerous to others around him. As far as "doing more to keep the group alive" compared to Rick? No. For survival, it is imperative that the group work as a team. Rick unites, Shane divides. I think Andrea's statement would be motivated more out of her feelings with her own personal salvation. She went from a victim to someone who is FAR more self sufficient. Mostly due to Shane.

I will be sorry to see Shane go. I think the character adds interesting drama. And I think Jon Bernthal is great in the role. But I think his departure is a done deal. The way this is being written, Rick was a bit too much a wuss, but he is now evolving to be a bit more like Shane. Doing questionable things to benefit the group. Shane needs to go so Rick can continue to evolve. The Governor is coming next season, and Rick will need to be a lot more brutal.

 

What Rick has done? Saved that grenade from the first episode, saving the lives all those who know want to fight to stay alive. If it were not for Rick's keen sense of foresight, the survivors would not even have a chance to pick sides. Rick makes contemplative decisions, keeping his ego separate, allowing him to see through the bullshit.

 

Excellent analogy! I would also add that he probably can't understand for the life of him why or how after them being together the way they were, she could just shut it all down like a light switch and go from one extreme to the other like she has. Quite honestly, I had a hard time understanding it as well even if she thought he lied to her about Rick's demise. Feelings just do not work that way. So part of the obession is probably also do to wanting to get to the bottom of that, at least for his own peace of mind.

However, like you end it...he MUST get beyond it, regardless. It can not be allowed to go unbridled and being the driving force behind any decisions he makes, or reactions. The crazier people become over anything, the worse they get, the worse they get, the more mistakes they make, the more mistakes they make, the bigger the liability for everyone they become.

 

I'll bet most people would agree with you that he has a lot of unlikeable qualities. He's a dickhead, no doubt about it. But he's not evil. When people attack him out of proportion to his deeds, it makes some people defend him even when they don't necessarily like him. And yes, even his good intentions will lead to a lot of bad shit, because of his explosive temper. He's cut out for a role in the group, but not as leader or spokesman.

 

I actually see him and Shane equally important (IF Shane wasn't so wrapped up in the Lori thing). The impression I got during the opener was that they were like a dynamic duo of a cop team. No reason to believe that they wouldn't have carried this level of working together into the ZA if the whole Lori thing did not go on.

 

The problem is that Shane needs supervision and in this scenario there is no one that he is willing to defer to.

 

Jacobmarley, could you explain how Shane is a corrosive element within the group? For example, why would Glenn think that? Why would Rick? Why would Daryl? And, to really make you think, why would/does Dale?

 

Boute, in this scenario there is no one that Shane should (willingly) defer to.

People keep writing that Shane should "be a team player", "take orders", "be supervised". But by whom? Rick is portrayed as an imbecile who's taking orders. Daryl's certainly not a leader. Glenn? Give me a break. Dale? The show portrays him as a cartoon, not the wise old man some have created in their imagination.

Maybe Shane, a police officer used to taking orders, is cracking under the complete lack of structure and governance of this group in a situation of extreme crisis. Such would be "normal" and is frequently observed (hint: a person becomes "institutionalized"). Along with the Lori situation (which I have explained in another post) he might also be wondering why these people seem to lack a clarity of purpose.

 

If Shane wasn't so wrapped up in the Lori thing..... you said it all right there. To bad the character of Lori can't fall off the face of the earth leaving Rick and Shane to carry on.