There in lies the problem, Maggie...

Shane is no good for the group. He can't handle being second in command.

I do agree that Shane has had to make difficult choices, but he has made them thinking of Shane and not the group in my opinion. Example... He didn't have to shoot Otis in the leg. He could have achieved the same goal by asking for the pack and moving faster than Otis right before they were to get grabbed. Long enough for Otis to be the sandwich. Or, for goodness sake (and no, I'm not entirely sold on this myself) he could have gave his pack to Otis and shot himself in the leg. Self preservation at any cost is how Shane thinks.

As for the decisions Rick would have made in that situation... Who knows. Maybe he would have been more perceptive and found a section of fence to use, or some other way to help them escape. We will never know.

As a side note... Shane was frigging stupid to shoot Otis THEN get the back pack. If he was smart, or written better, he would have asked for the pack in a nonchalant manner THEN shot Otis. Frigging silly.

 

Shane has a sense of survival now mostly by shooting his way out of things. He is living with killing Otis which has pushed him to the edge, so he takes his anger out on the walkers, any walkers. Sooner or later the walkers in the barn would have overwhelmed Otis if he was still alive and they would have had a bunch of walkers attacking them right in the safe zone.

 

I don't think Shane has only thinking of Shane. If he had, he wouldn't have gone into that school to get the meds for carl. He also wouldn't have gone to the hospital at the beginning to try to help rick.

Personally, I didn't see a lot of choice but to shoot Otis. I don't think he started out to do it, but when he realized they both couldn't make it, he did it. Otis wasn't keeping up.

I do think the writers villainize Shane too much while making Rick and the other characters look perfect. . I also agree he could be written better. I felt infiltrating the school was kind of a lame-o idea without a much better diversion. Poor writing really. Stampede a few cows or something down the street to distract the herd. Something.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Shane's choices aren't completely without merit. I just don't think he belongs with a group. Any group unless he teams up with a bunch of people like himself. It's that he isn't good for our group and their long term goal in my opinion.

If they keep him alive, and I can see that happening, I'd like to see him strike out on his own and run into a bunch of people just like himself. It would be interesting to see what that does to him.

 

I don't really see shane as a loner. I think he needs to have a change of heart, or reform. Not reallly that hard to write or do. He has a valuable place in the group and I like the actor- sadly, the black and white way the writers write Shane is pushing him into the villainous category at warp speed, and personally it is a bit annoying. I like Rick and Shane both. I don't particularly like it when one part of a love triangle is made to look awful just so one side the 'winning' couple looks good. Its lazy writing, and its starting to get that way with Shane/Rick/Lori.

 

Shane is like Merle now he doesn't work and play well with others. It seems to me that it has been written about Shane's character that he has always been jealous of Rick and being in his shadow.So the conclusion is that Shane has always had this bad/violent side to him and now it is showing itself. I don't see Shane as having had to make hard and difficult choices not on the level that Rick has had. I didn't see Shane or anyone else chase after Sophia but Rick when she was being chased by walkers.The same when Rick has to shoot and kill Sophia because no one else could.Shane just dropped his head and turned away. As I have said this before in Days Gone Bye - Shane didn't really check to see if Rick was alive. Yes the world was going to shit. But Rick was hooked up to all those monitors and one was checking his heart and he was stable. In less Shane was so inept and dense he could have seen there was no flat line. So Rick was very much alive in a coma - a deep sleep- .Even when the machines were destroyed Shane came to the conclusion Rick was dead.There was too much going on for him to say without doubt and question that yes Rick was dead. It was what Shane wanted to believe and therefore have Lori,his best friends' wife for himself. He told her and wanted her to believe the same lie. She was just as wrong for not having a mind or thought of her own for going along with Shane. For going off half cocked the way he did Shane was just reckless and trying to make points again with Lori and prove to himself that he is better than Rick when he let the walkers out of the barn. He wanted to say I can protect Lori and this group. Never mind he that he used up a great deal if not all of the arsenal.Showing he is a bully and a child.

 

Give the guy a break:
-he had to kill a guy to save his friend's son and now has to live with that guilt
-Lori could possibly be pregnant with his kid and now he has to deal with rick-lori-shane drama
-he isn't a bad guy, just morally grey...as most people would be in an appocalypse situation
-in the hospital flashback scene he really made an effort to help Rick out
-Lor, Carl & Rick wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for shane


Even though I'm on Shane's side, he still did some really stupid things:
-sleeping with Lori and Andrea but not sleeping with Maggie as well
-I understand where he was going with the Otis thing, but he could have atleast pistol whipped him unconscious so he didn't have to suffer as much while being zombie food
-wasting all those bullets on the walkers in the barn when they could have easily killed them another way
-not flat out denying killing Otis to Dale when he already knows Dale has a big mouth, he should have just kept it 100% to himself (he didn't admit it, but didn't exactly deny it either)
-not manning up and telling Rick what happened, this might cause a bad day and a fist fight, but its better than dragged out tension and technically it's Lori's fault anyway, Shane wasn't the adulterer

Give Shane a chance, he might not be leader material but he is definately right hand man material

 

He was a a self absorbed kind of guy before the apocalypse began. It has only magnified in the aftermath. I still think he is an integral part of the story for now, but I don't like him. However... I can't fault him for killing Otis. I know it wasn't right. I know that many see it as evil. However, if that was my son dying, I'd be grateful for a man like Shane. I'd make him a friggin sandwich. But... I'd keep my eyes on him, my gun loaded, and my thumb near the safety.

 

No one ever knows how they are gonna react or change when a crisis comes. Something that totally changes your way of life can affect you in ways you cannot imagine.

 

Does anyone else look at Shane and Rick as two sides of the same character?

There's Rick, who slept (for lack of a better word) through the entire outbreak/epidemic and wakes up post-apocalypse. For him it's like he blinked and the world changed. So he still feels a deep connection to the way things were before the epidemic.

Then there's Shane, who not only was there crawling and scraping his way through the entire mess, but also having to watch after his fallen partner's wife and child and deal with the guilt of having not been able to save his partner (so he thought) from the walkers when it hit the fan.

Rick remembers how things used to be because he didn't see the world burn, while Shane watched society circle the drain before finally collapsing. Rick represents hope and nostalgia, while Shane represents survival and the mindset that requires.

The problem is that both characters have personality flaws beyond their archetypal meanings. Rick has too great a sense of responsibility for others (a holdover of his previous career as a sheriff's deputy, which in his mind he held not that long ago) while Shane is emotionally unbalanced by the stresses he's been through, made worse by Lori's initial acceptance and subsequent rejection. And we as viewers have trouble differentiating the archetypes from the characters. Some people think just because Shane is a bit off in the head none of his suggestions have merit. On the other hand, some viewers ignore Shane's psychological problems because his survival mindset makes so much sense in the post-apocalyptic world.

The way I see it, the ending of Pretty Much Dead Already should be a turning point for Rick's character. We should really see him start to let others make their own choices and live with the consequences, as Rick is just now starting to see some of the harsh realities that the other characters have lived with from the start of the epidemic. However, the fact that Rick so prominently says, "I'm going after him!" in the Nebraska promo makes me worry that the writers and producers are going to throw away such a climactic and well done mid-season finale without any significant character development.

 

AMEN. I might (MIGHT) be revising my opinion of Shane. I've already said my piece on Lori, and am comfortable with it. But Shane..... Ah Shane..... This character is tough to pigeon-hole. And Felicia's comment about the kids hits home hard. It's EASY to be an armchair moralist.... but when it came down to it, I'd make him a sandwich too. On top of that? he DID originally tell Otis to leave with out him.. .cause his ankle was messed up... and Otis refused... putting Carl at risk... so... he really was trying to be a hero at first... I cant cast him as a villen for the Otis thing.

The Walker/Barn thing... yea... that was a big unhinged... the Lori thing .... they're both boned on that one (forgive the pun) but over all.... after watching the first/second season again.... Shane might not be the total douchebag I thought he was.....

 

nice summary and I think hits the nail on the head. well done.

 

IMO, one of the (many) good things about TWD is how by rewatching your views can change. At first I was totally against Shane but upon rewatching both seasons - we are in the middle of repeats of S2 over here - I have changed my opinion on him. That said I still wouldn't trust him and I don't agree with the way he treated Lori at the CDC or his handling of the barn but there are snippets where you can see how he could be a good guy in a different scenario. For me the way he wipes Carl's blood off Rick's forehead stands out as showing the caring side that is still buried in there somewhere. As for Otis - tbh I just don't know.

 

I still don't like or think much of Shane. Even after re -watching all the episodes in season 1 and season 2. I will admit Shane has had his moments mostly when Carl got shot and how caring and supportive he was to Rick. However knowing how jealous he is of Rick and being in his shadow - enough said - Shane might have had a little humanity and likability but that all but disappeared when Rick returned and came back to the camp. The changes were obvious - he was pissed because Rick was now back with Lori - his wife- and son. Shane would start to disagree with how Rick wanted to do and handle things. Not to mention he held a gun up and in his sights to his supposed best friend and kept it there. Tried to force Lori the woman he claimed to love into having sex against her will. Getting upset and thinking Rick is weak when Rick starts to doubt himself instead of back him.Clashes with Rick when he still wants to look for Sophia making it seem that there is little importance looking for another human being- even though she is a child-. How he handled Otis - just the wrong way to do things.Getting all angry at Lori when she mentions the baby could be Rick's. Never mind that it only takes one time - it still could go either way not matter how many times Shane and Lori did the deed-. And letting all the walkers out of the barn was just an act of someone not rational and unbalanced. Rick to has faults but no where near the level that Shane does. I wouldn't want to be caught in a fox hole or anywhere else with Shane - I wouldn't feel safe knowing he would knee cap or try and put a knife in my back when I became useless or no longer needed. I would rather Rick have my back. I would really hope that there is redemption for Shane but what I have seen in the previews for the next up coming episodes he is like Anikin Skywalker there is no going back.

 

Shane isn't my favorite character by any means, but he's the one I find most interesting. So many of the others are flat and archetypal (the fatherly old man, the black guy, the dutiful wife, etc.), but Shane is positively bursting with internal conflict. He went from Lori's savior to her most despised enemy in almost literally the blink of an eye. He had to deal with the guilt of leaving Rick behind at the hospital when he thought he was dead, and then he had to deal with a whole different flavor of guilt when Rick walks into camp and Shane realizes he left him behind alive. He's simultaneously thrilled and relieved that Rick survived, and torn apart by guilt and resentment at having Lori and Carl, who have thus far been the driving force behind everything he's done, taken away from him.

That said, the most glaring red-flag moment for me was the incident with Lori at the CDC. Under normal circumstances, I would say absolutely zero excuse, none, for that kind of behavior. Alcohol, stress, nothing makes that okay. And it's not okay. But at the end of the end of the world, a person doesn't know how s/he'll respond to a situation until that situation occurs. Not long ago, Lori loved Shane in some way. Under the pressure of the end of the world and with some booze in him on top of that, it's understandable that Shane may have convinced himself that she still did. Understandable, not acceptable. If anything I think that incident proves that there is absolutely no room for alcohol after the apocalypse.

 

Shane, by far, is the most interesting character in the show. That does not mean that I like him, or would want him to be around me at all during the ZA.

 

If you read the comic book, you would have known that Rick in the comic book is actually the combination of the Rick and Shane in the TV show, for example in the comic book, Rick admit he would sacrifice anyone in his group to save Carl, and in the DC community, what he did to Jessica was basically the same as what Shane did to Otis in the TV show.

 

I'm just getting into the comic and I know that Rick would do anything to protect Carl and doesn't care who sacrifices but to me there is a difference there. But has been said about Shane and Rick before - Shane lacks humanity any form of thinking before acting whereas Rick has humanity and rationalizes and has some thought and regard do what he says and does. In the show anyway.

 

That was after two years of living like this. Shane changed in 2 weeks or so. There is where the "problem" lies with Shane. It was easy for him to turn to the "darkside".

Rick's situation in the comic was different as well.

 

I never said I agree with what Shane did, my only point is that in the comic book Shane is long gone, and Rick we see in the comic is a combination of Rick and Shane in the TV show