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Shane Replaced By Daryl Before His Death?

Discussion in 'Episode 212 - Better Angels' started by Walkers Ate Me, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. Walkers Ate Me

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    Another user on this site (I forgot his/her name) said that Daryl became Rick's right-hand man when he put down Dale. This looks to be true, especially in this episode. Rick was going to take Daryl with him to drop off Randall. Rick also asked Andrea to help Hershel keep an eye on things when they were gone, particularly Shane.

    So by this point was Shane not even in the chain of command anymore? The leadership roles appeared to be:

    1) Rick (Leader)

    2) Daryl (Right hand man to Rick) and Hershel (Adviser, Farm Owner)

    3) Andrea

    Shane even bitterly said to Rick early in the episode, "You wanna take Daryl as your wing man? Be my guest." Did he not have any leadership privileges anymore?
     
  2. Alec96

    Alec96 Well-Known Member

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    Rick didn't trust Shane anymore at that point. So, yes, looked as if he was completely taken out of the role, and was just going to be used for his shooting.
     
  3. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    I am that forum member! :Grin:

    Yes, Daryl did become Rick's right hand when he put down Dale.

    Daryl and Rick were at odds when they first met, but he gradually became more supportive, whereas Shane was more critical and even judgmental.

    After Dale's funeral, Shane seemed to realize his standing in the group had changed, even though Rick never criticized him in private or to the group.

    However, Rick and Shane's last conversations did have an air of resentment. I also noticed when Shane talked to Rick about Carl, Rick was standing on a lofty position (the farms porch actually) looking down at Shane. I've wondered if this was shot for us to see things from Shane's perspective: the former leader ignored by all, and belittled by his successor and best friend.
     
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  4. firstfooter

    firstfooter Active Member

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    S2 creative writing. I don't read TWD but I think I heard the Shane Character never made it to S2 in relation to the comics. Sooo the writers were developing Shane's exit plan ...plus the Ricktatorship needs a right hand man and Daryl was the obvious choice.
     
  5. Walkers Ate Me

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    That's right! I remembered your name started with an 'R.'

    Damn. Shane went from being the original leader in Atlanta to not having any position of authority.

    What throws me in this episode, however, is that Shane led the group of Daryl, Andrea and T-Dog when they went hunting for walkers as revenge for killing Dale. Shane was driving and leading the pack; Daryl only took over when he was tracking. This looks to be the last time he was in charge when Rick wasn't around. I think Shane was "officially" fired as Rick's second in command when he told him he was taking Daryl to drop off Randall.

    Another interesting thing about the prior episode is that Daryl became the group's enforcer by beating the crap out of Randall in the barn. Before Daryl put down Dale, the order was...

    1) Rick

    2) Shane

    3) Daryl (The Enforcer)

    In early Season 3, T-Dog took Daryl's old role as the muscle. This is especially evident during Seed. While Daryl was second in command and watching Rick's back, T-Dog was the one threatening Tomas and the other survivors. It's a shame they killed T-Dog so early because he did a great job as the group's muscle in the short time he had the role.
     
  6. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    Shane, Daryl, Andrea and T-Dog were doing a perimeter check when they came across those walkers. You can argue that Shane led them, but his body language and his stomping on the walker make me think Shane knew the group hierarchy had changed.

    Daryl interrogated Randall because Shane clearly wanted him dead. If Rick left Shane alone with Randall, Shane could easily kill him and come up with any story he wanted.

    I've got to agree that T-Dog was stepping up in season 3. Too bad T-Dog was forgotten during all the character development in season 2.
     
  7. Walkers Ate Me

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    Interesting. I thought Shane and company went out of their way looking for walkers for revenge. A perimeter check sounds just a plausible though, especially after what happened to Dale. Walkers had never snuck on the farm before.

    You're right about Daryl interrogating Randall. That makes sense also. I assumed Daryl was just stepping up because he isolated himself after the Sophia incident. I also think Daryl was a little jealous of Shane. When Dale tried to convince him to let Randall live, Daryl said "Rick just looks to Shane...let him!!" There was some bitterness there. When Dale lay there dying and Shane didn't do anything when he saw Rick struggling, I think Daryl knew that was his moment to step up.
     
  8. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    I doubt Daryl was jealous of Shane. Daryl's only concern was finding Sophia, and Rick followed his advice in the search.

    I think Daryl's bitterness involved not only Rick, but the whole group. To them, Daryl was just a redneck, and all the nasty stereotypes that came with that label. Remember when Andrea gave a wounded Daryl a book, and he quipped "What, no pictures?"
     
  9. Walkers Ate Me

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    I was watching this video earlier and T-Dog said that they wanted revenge on those walkers. It's implied that they went searching for (undead) blood, but it could have just as easily been a perimeter check since a walker previously snuck up on Dale.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPrdxCnT_Kg

    This is somewhat off topic, but when do you feel Rick officially became the leader of the group? In watching Season 1 recently, I'll say he didn't become the official leader until they arrived at the CDC. Once there, it was Rick (not Shane) who went out of his way to represent the group, thank Jenner, etc. Rick also kept things under control when Jenner tried to blow them all up. lol.

    Before the CDC, you could see Rick gradually assuming Shane's role as leader, but everything Rick did was (grudingly) approved by Shane before he would do it. For example, they didn't go to the CDC until Rick had Shane's blessing.
     
  10. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    That was the problem though, Shane gave up authority to Rick as soon as he arrived; taking up the same roll he was in before the fall- Ricks second hand man. By the time he started resenting the loss of power, he had already shown the group that even he thought Rick was in charge. Shane could have kept power in the group if he could have truly let go of the old world. Rick was only interested in being with his family when he arrived, and would have followed orders if they were given.
     
  11. Walkers Ate Me

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    That's a good point, also. It's interesting how subtle the leadership roles change in The Walking Dead. Rapscallion, where you at man? lol.
     
  12. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    like Rick handing power over to; First Abraham, then Douglas, before being forced to lead again.
     
  13. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    It seemed that the only orders Shane gave the group were stay in camp. He never fought for the role of leader, but he was quick to criticize Rick's decisions.

    Obviously Rick cared about his family, but he quickly put his life on the line to help others in the group.
     
  14. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    That was it though, Shane was the one the camp looked to when they had an issue. Shane barked the orders, and everyone followed suit. If it were not for Rick's arrival, the group would have been done for with Shane taking the lead.
     
  15. Walkers Ate Me

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    I would looooooove a flashback to see how Shane handled Merle. I'd like to see how Shane handled things before Rick arrived.
     
  16. Alec96

    Alec96 Well-Known Member

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    Well in Home, we found out Merle and Daryl were planning on robbing the camp. The only reason it didn't go down is becuase Rick handcuffed Merle to the roof. So from that, we can assume they weren't friends.

    I agree, though, that would be interesting to see.
     
  17. DietWater

    DietWater Well-Known Member

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    I see this phrase thrown around a lot but no one ever explains why.

    Especially given your situation where Rick never made it back. If Rick never made it back, Shane would have happily been with Lori and Carl, and he never would have had that jealousy eat at his soul.

    Was he a little more harsh and not as willing to go out of his way to solve everyone's problems? Yes. But that's smart. Going on suicide mission into Atlanta (with the writers protecting you) isn't.

    Although it is a show, so things usually work out in the end. If it was real life, Shane made much better calls then Rick did by a long shot.
     
  18. Walkers Ate Me

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    Yeah, and Shane said to Rick that Merle "wouldn't give you a glass of water if you were dying of thirst," and refered to Merle as a "drug dealer" to Lori in season 2. Both statements are likely true! lol.

    Merle respected The Governor but I can't see him ever giving Rick or Shane that kind of loyalty. (I know we saw how things ended between Govey and Merle, but it's amazing The Gov was able to keep Merle on a leash for so long).
     
  19. HondaS2kXD

    HondaS2kXD Well-Known Member

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    well... They would've gone to fort Benning. Which was overrun. Which isn't ideal.

    if Rick hadn't went and got the guns, things could have gone much worse. Amy and Jim could have been joined by several others. Regardless, if Rick hadn't offered that olive branch to daryl, who knows where that could have gone? He could have followed through and robbed the group. Or worse.

    I agree with Shane on most policy decisions. Randall should've been left behind-- or shot now that that's too late. The barn needed taken care of. I do think they should have kept looking for Sophia, but that's just me. The problem is the way he went about it. Rather than having a calm discussion and arguing his case with facts and logic, he skips straight to "ANARCHY! Let's shoot Hershel's dead family he thinks is sick and hope he doesn't kick us out for it!" That's stupid. The barn was safe. Was keeping walkers in it a stupid thing? Yes. Were they about to break down the doors and escape and kill everyone? No.
     
  20. Alec96

    Alec96 Well-Known Member

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    In Home, we found out Merle and Daryl were planning on robbing the camp blind. The only reason it didn't go down is becuase Rick handcuffed Merle to the roof, thus preventing it. So there's one why. Another is the way Shane interacts with people. He never would have been able to convert Hershel or Daryl to his side like Rick did. He couldn't survive long term all by himself, he would have needed people like that with him. Also, he wanted to stay at the camp even after the walkers attacked; that wasn't smart. Shane was a hot head to boot. That almost got them killed at the CDC when he was going to kill Jenner. There are more reasons to list, but I won't go into them.

    Without him going crazy with the whole Lori thing, he would have been a perfect right hand man. Wouldn't make a great leader, though, in my opinion.
     
    #20 Alec96, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014

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