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Shane said Rick had a broken woman, a weak boy...

Discussion in 'Episode 212 - Better Angels' started by SerenitysMommy, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. SerenitysMommy

    SerenitysMommy Member

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    If Shane really belived that, why does he want them so bad? Bad enough to kill his best friend?

    Maybe it shows how far gone Shane really was...since he was willing to kill to claim that broken woman and that weak boy?
     
    #1 SerenitysMommy, Oct 8, 2012
  2. Bassman

    Bassman Administrator
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    He wasn't necessarily wanting to claim Lori as much as he was wanting to claim dominance over the entire group. Sure, he wanted Lori as well, but I think a large portion of it was just being in charge. When Rick "died", Shane stepped out of his shadow and became an important figure in the lives of Lori, Carl, and later the entire group, only to lose it all the moment Rick stepped out of the van at the campsite.
     
    #2 Bassman, Oct 8, 2012
  3. SerenitysMommy

    SerenitysMommy Member

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    He didnt mention power tho, or being in charge. He did say Lori and Carl would get over Rick, theyd done it before, and theyd have to again. His thirst for power has always been there, I agree, but I feel that was a secondary reason to kill Rick. I honestly think he tried to kill Rick to claim Lori and Carl and the baby, so I really dont understand the insults towards them. Unless he thought he could fix Lori and teach Carl not to be weak?
     
    #3 SerenitysMommy, Oct 8, 2012
  4. Bassman

    Bassman Administrator
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    I've always felt that Shane didn't lead Rick out to the field with the sole intention of killing him. He led Rick out there with the intention of having a wild west stand off, if you will. It was ending then and there, but Shane wasn't truly sure he would be the victor. His plan wasn't pure murder.

    This would explain why he was attempting to agitate Rick with the insults and why he gave him so many chances to "defend" himself. Shane could've easily shot Rick in the back of the head early on in the episode and it would have been over. Instead, Shane attempted an even fight. Nearly to the point of asking Rick to kill him.

    So the insults about Rick's parenting and family skills were just to further aggrevate him into pulling his gun on Shane. That's the way i've always seen it, but I know opinions vary wildly on this subject.
     
    #4 Bassman, Oct 8, 2012
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  5. BrokenAngel

    BrokenAngel Active Member

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    Shane wanted Rick to kill him and kept pushing him. Yeah, he wanted Lori and Carl. He had become a liability. He was dangerous and a threat to the group and had been since he tried to rape Lori and his obsession for continued even when Rick returned to the camp.
     
    #5 BrokenAngel, Oct 8, 2012
  6. SerenitysMommy

    SerenitysMommy Member

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    Very valid points, both of you. Makes the insults make more sense now.

    What a coward tho. Not man enough to kill yourself? Just bait your best friend into doing it. And even if he had won, did he really think he could go back to the group and everything would be fine? Lori would just jump back into his bed?
     
    #6 SerenitysMommy, Oct 8, 2012
  7. Maggie

    Maggie Member

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    Well... truthfully... she might have. She's just that irrational and selfish.
     
    #7 Maggie, Oct 8, 2012
  8. DarylFTW

    DarylFTW Member

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    I completely agree. I think Shane wanted alot more than just Lori and Carl. He was also complaining about the bad decisions made for the group. I can't help but think, had Shane lived, perhaps left as he had intended, he would have been even more dangerous. I think he was becoming so out of control that he would have stalked Lori/Carl/Rick and tried to do something to come back to the group as their new leader or hero.

    I felt this too. If Shane just wanted to murder Rick he could have done it so easily. He just couldn't bring himself to do that. And I think he wanted so desperately to be better than Rick, that he couldn't just shoot him. He wanted Rick "to make the mistake" and pull his gun.
     
    #8 DarylFTW, Oct 8, 2012
  9. SerenitysMommy

    SerenitysMommy Member

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    I think he just wanted Rick to make the first move so he could honestly say that Rick attacked him.

    If I goat someone into trying to kill me, simply so I can yell self defense later when hes found dead, its still murder. Just a different way of going about it.

    Shane already thought he was better than Rick. He didnt need confirmation of this by Rick attacking first. He simply wanted to be able to tell the truth about it being self defense when he went back to the group without Rick.
     
    #9 SerenitysMommy, Oct 8, 2012
  10. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that pre-apocalypse Shane was a womanizer; he'd gone from woman to woman since high school, and that wasn't any secret.

    Shane also knew about Rick and Lori's marital problems. While Rick couldn't explain what was happening with himself and Lori, Shane's had enough experiences with women to understand Lori didn't know what she wanted in life, that's why he referred to Lori as "a broken woman."

    Shane was disappointed when he failed to convince Carl to keep Daryl's pistol. To Shane, Carl was "a weak boy," because he couldn't ignore Dale's death; Shane himself ignored Otis's death, and that made him unstable and aggressive. Rick was more understanding, and that's why Carl kept the pistol.
     
    #10 Rapscallion, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  11. Lewk00t

    Lewk00t Active Member

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    He wanted to get Rick angry. Simple.
     
    #11 Lewk00t, Dec 18, 2012
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