Battle Royale Forums

Welcome to Battle Royale Forums. Join us today and become part of the growing group of survivors.

Shane's leadership before Rick arrived

Discussion in 'Episode 101 - Days Gone Bye' started by Walkers Ate Me, Sep 24, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Walkers Ate Me

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    I was talking to someone in another thread a few years back (I know...I haven't been here in a while). And I mentioned in passing that I'd like to have seen what things were like when Shane was the leader of the Atlanta Camp before Rick arrived. I got this response, which I agree with.

    I think he has it right. Shane was a former cop, and probably kept everyone motivated. It's weird to think about it now, but Shane probably looked to Dale as an advisor, much in the same way Rick later looked to Dale and Hershel. (Of course we know the Shane/Dale friendship went down the toilet the second Dale caught Shane aiming his rifle at an unsuspecting Rick)

    I wish we could have seen how Shane would have kept the Dixon brothers in line (if that were possible). I know it was revealed later that the brothers planned to "rob that camp blind," and I think they would have gotten away with it under Shane's leadership. I don't think Shane had the manpower to overcome a situation like that. Who would his right-hand man be? Morales? I am really surprised that Merle didn't take over that group when Shane was in charge.

    Shane nearly beat Ed to death, but I don't see him doing that to either of the Dixon brothers. I just don't.

    But what else is interesting to me is how Rick eased into taking the leadership spot from Shane. Throughout season 1, each time Rick made a decision, he went straight to Shane for approval -- going back to get Merle and the guns, going to the CDC, etc -- Rick always had to get Shane's blessing first. But I think that by the time they got to the CDC, Rick was acting like the man in charge, going out of his way privately to thank Jenner and everything. It seemed that Shane gradually eased back and began to follow Rick's lead himself, although he often nitpicked at his decisions.

    But long story short, how do you picture things going under Shane's leadership early on? And would things have fallen apart quickly at the camp had Rick not arrived?
     
  2. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    9,275
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Shane always had only one objective, and that was to keep Lori and Carl safe. So his leadership was limited to that only, and ultimately he would have sacrificed anyone and anything for that goal.

    So really, he was only pretending to lead the group. And I think people suspected that, which is why they were so willing to go to Rick once he arrived. And the way that Shane dealt with Ed shows at least part of how Shane 'led'.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Walkers Ate Me

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Agreed. I noticed that each time the group was in trouble --for example when the herd attacked the Atlanta Camp --Shane made sure to protect Lori and Carl.

    And then there was the time he refused to send anyone out to get the group that was trapped in Atlanta, which let to Amy famously quipping, "That's my sister! You son of a ....!!!"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    32,609
    Likes Received:
    2,304
    Shane had some good ideas, but like others said he wasn't a leader. He had ulterior motives and he was also a hot head. He blew up when things didn't go his way and was often unresponsive to any type of dialogue that differed from his ideals. His mannerisms served to divide people and stress them out even more, during times when assurance and cooperation was what was actually needed.

    Andrea said it best when she told him it was his presentation that was lacking. For instance, he was on the right side of the argument regarding Hershel's treatment of the walkers as sick people. But he had the complete inability to come up with a logical remedy that wouldn't pit the group against each other. Instead, he chose to kill Hershel's walker family in a fit, jeopardizing the group's welcome on the farm.

    A leader would have taken Hershel aside privately, and respectfully, and told him he needs to see something and really think about it. Then presented Hershel with a severed walker head in a box. A head that was still growling. Then systematically and logically made Hershel see that this could not be a sick person. It was a dead [and deadly] thing. A leader would have taken advantage of the fact that Hershel had a medical background and would have seen that this was the route to go.

    Once Hershel was on board, they could have worked together to secure the farm, cooperatively. There's a difference between being right about something, and being a leader about something.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    11,157
    Likes Received:
    445
    I think the quoted post in the OP is pretty right.

    Rick became the leader of the Atlanta group because they didn't really have one to begin with. Shane was more concerned with his own business (Lori) than actually leading anyone. He definitely had a bit of authority, but I don't think he was actually interested in anything other than looking after his own shit.

    Pretty much from the moment he got there, Rick was calling shots and making decisions. It's just something he gravitated towards because he's a team person. He wants everyone to make it and knows there is strength in numbers, plus his actions in going back for Merle prove that he has a good conscience.

    Interestingly, in the comics, there's a brief moment Shane is adamantly against leaving the initial Atlanta camp because he thinks the military will soon come and save them. Behind his gruff, tough, sexy exterior, Shane's kind of a selfish coward.
     
  6. BadassRick

    BadassRick Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    92
    Beautifully said.
     
  7. BadassRick

    BadassRick Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    92
    I think most of us can agree that Shane and the Season 1-2 version of Rick Grimes were very, very different.

    My question now is - how different was Shane from the Rick Grimes that entered Alexandria back in Season 5?

    Like Shane, Rick was ready to put down a man (Pete) and take his wife because he felt he was weak and incapable of protecting her.

    Also, that speech he gave in Episode 15 of Season 5 was damn near identical to the speech Shane gave after releasing the zombies from the barn.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Shane had issues, but I also felt that he was a victim for being truly ahead of his time (much like Rick when he first entered Alexandria). He understood that the civilization they had all come to know was gone long before everyone else did, and foresaw people like the Governor, Gareth and Negan coming long before everyone else did. That divided them just as much, if not more, than his emotional instability.
     
    #7 BadassRick, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  8. BadassRick

    BadassRick Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    92
    This has always been my belief, but that belief got tested veerrryyy hard during the Season 6 premiere, when Carter got bit, and Rick killed him unceremoniously just to shut him up and prevent him from attracting walkers.

    While I understand why he did that, I can't help but wonder if Rick would've killed Glenn or Michonne that unceremoniously if they were in Carter's position.
     
  9. Walkers Ate Me

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    In the comics, (I believe shortly after Shane's death) Dale told Rick that the group only looked to Shane because he was a cop, or something along those lines. The TV show never outright said this, but I think Shane's uniform may have played a part in why people took orders from him. He was the closest thing to the "law" that they had, kind of like how the people in Grady Memorial looked to Dawn.

    There isn't a difference. You explained things perfectly, and I have no doubt that the writers did this on purpose. The difference, though, is that Rick was still always a bit smarter than Shane, even when he became unhinged. Shane, unlike Rick, was a pure hothead.
     
    #9 Walkers Ate Me, Oct 2, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  10. BadassRick

    BadassRick Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    92
    I agree that Rick is smarter than Shane. He's less of a hothead, and thus will make smarter choices.

    But I also think the writers were a little biased in how they crafted Rick's story. They pitted him against Pete, perhaps the most unlikable character that's ever been on the show lol. Even if Rick murdered him in cold blood, there would be a lot of people who'd overlook it.
     
  11. Walkers Ate Me

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    ^^That's a good point. Shane was the antagonist when he did the exact things Rick later did to Pete, but they made Rick appear to be justified when he did it. lol.

    Also, in re-watching Season 2 recently, I saw other examples of Shane's leadership. When the walker was trapped in the well, you kind of feel in the air that Shane was in charge, although everyone had an equal say in how to deal with the situation. But again, if felt like the final decisions had to be approved by Shane before they took any action. Still, if Rick had been around I think he definitely would have been a more effective and vocal leader than Shane was in that situation.

    Also, Shane led the small group of Daryl, Andrea and T-Dog when they searched the perimeter, tracking and killing walkers in revenge for Dale's death. Daryl took over for a bit when he was tracking, but he always did this as he was the group's expert tracker.

    It's interesting to me that they were still following Shane's lead at this point, considering everyone knew he was an unstable hothead and Daryl was already becoming Rick's right hand.
     
  12. rhizin

    rhizin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    7
    Rick had to become a lot like Shane later on, but there is a crucial difference. Shane turned on his own people right in the beginning, without it being really neccessary. Right from the start he only cared about himself and what he regarded as his family, willing to sacrifice or actively kill anyone else, friend or foe. While Rick had to harden up and become more like Shane regarding strangers, Shane would have developed into another Governor or Negan, had he lived.
     
  13. Walkers Ate Me

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Shane had no tact, but it's real interesting how far ahead of his time he was. I really enjoyed the "conversation" between Rick and Shane during Rick's last episode, which further confirmed that Shane was a massive influence on Rick's behavior during Rick's most brutal moments.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page