Andy's bond could not be that deep with Ofelia. They only knew each other for a few days. The same goes with Ofelia. She might like him but she is also using him to get medical supplies for her mother.

And I suppose, if the group tried to leave town earlier, they might have become part of that miles long traffic jam on that highway.

 

Seems to me like he wanted revenge.

He wasn't in the memorium. Can't wait for him to return as the West Coast Negan. My bae can't be dead just yet. <3333

 

No, I don't think he was evil. Previously we see him tell Ofelia that she makes him believe there are still good people left. When she returns to the fence for her mother, he goes against protocol and pleads to his superior to let him help her, he offers to take her home. This leads to him being held captive and tortured. Once Daniel gets what he wants from him, as a soldier he knows Daniel is going to kill him (he's right) He even told Travis "what do you think he practiced in El Salvador..torture and release?"
From his standpoint, you really can't blame the guy for wanting some revenge.

 

I think you might entirely be missing the point thinking he is Evil?

He was actually being the nice guy and was taken advantage of for it.This would piss me off too and then Ophelia has the nerve to try to make him back down and admonish him as though she had ever felt anything real for him at all?
I can't believe really that he didn't try to kill all of them?

 

I think its his own fault he got tortured. Why would he hold out long enough to get that severely flayed just to protect information regarding killing innocent non-infected civilians? I would have just told Daniel everything right away, before he even got his knife out. I think he was just being a short sighted pawn with misplaced loyalty.

I can understand his anger, and wanting revenge, but shooting Ofelia instead of Daniel was a bit of an evil move. He knew that Daniel had tricked Ofelia. He was willing to kill an innocent person just to hurt Daniel. And he executed this plan at a time when his mates were dying in battle. I guess his loyalty to the NG dissolved when revenge took over.

 

I'm surprised Daniel didn't go after Travis, because of this.

 

That is not how it looked to me.

I think he already was going to come clean about it all or already had but in the interest of being thorough as he was taught Daniel went ahead to make sure he got every drop out of him that he could anyway and then would kill him.

So it looked to me like the flaying of skin was the tipping point for Andrew and Ophelia both and what sent this over the line in general.

Just my take on it.

 

A good portion of Andrew's arm was already flayed, and he was still saying "I don't know" when Daniel asked him 'what is Cobalt?'. He held out.

 

What he did was evil. But what Daniel and Ofelia did to him was evil too. Daniel did trick Ofelia, but Ofelia tricked him - she isn't innocent in terms of what happened to him. And she was playing him from the start to get the meds.

I think he held out because he didn't want to be a traitor and once he spilled the beans Daniel would have no use for him. Also telling your torturer that you and your comrades plan to kill his wife could exact a whole other level of rage from your torturer.

Plus, it's makes for good TV :Grin:

 

Immediately after Andrew shooting Ophelia, Travis sprung into action and proceeded to beat his face in with all the strength he could muster.

Daniel looked over, but seemed content that Travis had at least realized the gravity of his mistake. Ophelia's subsequent recovery helps too.

 

I wouldn't categorize those 2 acts as the same kind of evil. What Daniel did was what he felt was necessary in order to save his wife. What Andrew did was out of malice and revenge. I think those are two very different sides of a coin.

Yeah, if he held out from not wanting to be a traitor, then I think his loyalties are definitely misplaced. And he didn't seem to mind abandoning his comrades later when they were fighting for their lives, while he laid in wait to exact his revenge.

But yes, it did make for good television.

 

I agree that each of their evil deeds was fueled by different motives, but they are still evil deeds. ( reminds of Salazar's own words to Maddie about his childhood view of his father and people's motives))
I don't agree that his loyalties are necessarily misplaced. Soldiers develop a strong bond with each other...so I can understand how it would feel like selling your own brothers out. At the point we see him, most of the soldiers are already bailing, like the ones who took the car from Chris and Alicia.

I think each of them committed some evil here, I just don't think it necessarily makes them evil people.

 

We can call them both 'evil' if we want, and certainly both acts were not good, but a bad act that stems from the necessity of survival is an entirely different ballgame than one stemming from revenge and pure malice. We are talking about the difference between Rick killing the Termites vs. The Claimers killing Rick [and hurting and killing people who happened to be with Rick].

I still maintain that his loyalty was pretty misplaced. I have strong bonds to many of my colleagues and family, but if, as a group, we got an order to execute an immoral evil deed [such as killing non-infected survivors], I wouldn't be loyal to that, even if everyone else was.

I do agree with you though that Andrew wasn't necessarily an evil person. He wasn't too far gone yet.

 

Travis is super lucky Ofelia didn't die from the gunshot. I still think we will see some tension between the two and Travis' bad decisions going forward in season 2.

 

To call the intent an act "evil" though you have to assume a rational state of mind. If someone is tortured, who knows what their state of mind is in the immediate aftermath of that event? This isn't taking place days after the torture, but hours, and he was tied up believing he was going to be killed up until the time he got in the truck with Travis. One could make the case that he was so traumatized by what he went through that he went after Daniel because he could see no other option. Who knows, maybe he started to run away and then became terrorized that Daniel would track him down and kill him and so figured the only way to survive was to kill his tormentor.

Victims in abusive relationships are often forgiven by the courts today for just such a reason when they strike back against their aggressor. I don't see a reason not to give the same benefit of the doubt to Andy.