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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    For the past few hours the Texas anti-late-term abortion law is in effect, effectively inhibiting abortion after there's a fetal heartbeat (at 16 weeks). Opposition groups have filed emergency appeals, so we'll see what Scotus says pretty soon about whether or not they will stay implementation.

    The really interesting part about this law is WHY it has stood so far where others have fallen. Rather than making a government agency responsible for enforcement (which then gets sued to oblivion by interest groups) the law allows concerned parties to sue the providers individually, and for at least $10,000 per abortion. This stymied the opposition a bit as there's no one to sue at this time, as no abortions are being performed under the law yet.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-law-banning-most-abortions-takes-effect
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    This isn't going to end well. Biological reality and "gender identity" are separate things, and medicine deals primarly with the former. I'm amazed that Biden is so keen to grab his hammer and try and beat the two together, but there is now one more expensive problem for the country coming down the road.

    "
    On August 26, two organizations of medical doctors and an obstetrician/gynecologist filed a lawsuit in federal court over a mandate from President Biden and HHS that will force doctors to perform gender-transition procedures, even on children.

    The administration’s excuse for this mandate is Obamacare, but that 1,000-page statute does not include a gender-identity-procedure mandate. Instead, it simply prohibits sex discrimination, as Congress understood that term when it enacted civil-rights laws half a century ago.

    Yet on January 20, President Biden ordered his federal agencies to go far beyond the law and reinterpret sex discrimination to include “gender identity” discrimination. President Obama had done the same for Obamacare and had admitted he was requiring doctors to give hormones to and perform gender-transition surgeries on patients who demand them. In 2016 a federal court blocked President Obama’s version of the mandate, and under his successor, Donald Trump, HHS said it agreed with the decision. But courts in New York and D.C. issued orders seeming to restore the Obama rule, and in May 2021, with Trump gone, the Biden administration told the world it will force doctors to perform these procedures anyway — and will even force them to deny biological reality in their speech."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-freedom-for-physicians/ar-AANYwn6?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  4. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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  5. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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  6. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Everything I’ve read says 6 weeks not 16. Most also say this is a period when most women don’t know they are pregnant. Effectively banning almost all abortion. It also puts enforcement in the hands of its citizens. Remember when Nazis encouraged citizens to turn in those who disagreed.


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  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A month and a half is 16 weeks, everyone knows that. Eh, yeah, I must have made a wee bit of a typo there. 6 weeks it is. Also, I'm not sure I buy that "women don't know they are pregnant" line. Speaking hypothetically here, if you go out some night and go home with some guy and then miss your next period and it never occurs to you something might have happened? IMO that's a pretty strange woman. I think that would be the FIRST thing I'd be worried about, and home pregnancy tests are cheap and anonymous.

    And you don't have to go back to the Nazis for an example of a government asking its citizens to turn each other in. De Blasio in NYC was asking people to turn in their fellow citizens for not following covid guidelines *last year*. I guess there's nothing wrong with that though, because -Dem.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I thought this was an article about an actual neurosurgeon getting wrongfully accused in Hawaii because some nurse can't spell, but no, just some nut who thinks it's wiser to pay someone for a fake vaccine card than it would be to actually get a potentially lifesaving vaccine.

    As another LOL, I can remember years ago some guy getting arrested at the pharmacist's for trying to fill a prescription for one *pound* of "Mophene". The REALLY funny part? The pharmacist actually called the MD to make sure they didn't write it that way!
     
  9. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    I just wasn’t sure if i missed something about the dates. When my ex and i were trying for a child, she missed periods and had spotting but no ensuing pregnancy. We found out this was very common even though she had what was considered a very regular cycle. She had a calendar and could predict down to the day when her cycle started. She occasionally had spotting so light we thought she was pregnant but wasn’t. When we researched it, spotting or light periods after conception was very common. It wasnt until after her following period was way late that we even tested. We didn’t know until well after 6 weeks and we were TRYING for over a year. If you weren’t planning a pregnancy, i can see how many women wouldn’t even think they were pregnant until their period was more than a week late if they were regular or even longer if their cycle was not a 28 day cycle. Or if it was irregular, they wouldn’t notice for weeks. It leaves almost no time to weigh options, make an appointment with a primary, then schedule an abortion. It is purposely removing the CHOICE.

    Reporting someone violating health protocols that affect you are one thing, Reporting someone who disagrees with you is another. Throwing a covid party can infect many others. An abortion doesn’t abort your neighbors child.


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  10. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Everybody knows “Mophene” is prescribed in kilos.


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  11. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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  12. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Not only is it 6 weeks, and yes, many women don't know they're pregnant at 6 weeks, but it allows anyone to sue anyone else for assisting the woman in getting said abortion.

    So you could sue an Uber driver for driving your neighbor to get an abortion. Even if you had nothing to do with your neighbor's pregnancy.

    And the law makes no exceptions for rape or incest. So if your brother rapes your 11-year old daughter and she gets pregnant, too bad so sad. And if you take said 11-year old in for an abortion, then ANYONE IN TEXAS can sue you and get a $10,000 bounty.

    But no worries, ANYONE can walk around fully armed at all times, whether they are legally or illegally carrying a weapon, because freedom, right?

    What a shithole.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Or, a woman who would want an abortion and is NOT on contraceptives, but is frequently sexually active could always just take a pregnancy test each month. I know that's an overwhelming burden to ask of women, but hey, women have been astronauts in outer space, are Supreme Court judges, the vice president of the United States, physicians, construction workers, working single parents.... I'll bet with a little effort and knowing the stakes women can manage to do this:rolleyes:.

    I'd say the State asking people to turn each other in for money is bad regardless.
     
    #6533 Morgotha, Sep 1, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    If your brother raped your daughter your brother would hopefully get shot, or failing that, arrested. There IS an exception for a "medical emergency" in the law, and I'd bet that an 11 year old rape victim would be found to have some medical emergency or other, regardless of when they showed up. By bringing up an 11 year old rape victim I think you are deliberately missing the point, which is that the vast majority of abortions are NOT rapes of 11 year olds, they are elective abortions from adult women who often have multiple abortions.

    And remember, this law gives you the right to use your own money to sue someone, it does NOT give you the right to automatically win that suit. If you sue an Uber driver and they say, "I didn't know nuthin about no abortion, I just drove them to the hospital" do you really think a jury would find them guilty? I don't. And then the person suing would be out the legal and court costs, etc. I'd bet there'll be a few high profile cases, especially at first, but I doubt if it'll turn in to everyone suing everyone.
     
  15. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    An 11-year old being pregnant is not a medical emergency, and under the law in Texas anyone performing an abortion under those circumstances would be subject to prosecution for breaking the law. And everyone involved could be sued by any private party involved, including your brother if he wants your 11-year old to have his child - and that's true whether you leave the state or not. In fact, a person so inclined could sue the airline you flew out of state on, or the gas station you stopped at on your way out of town, and motels you stay at, etc. etc. It would be a gold mine to those so inclined.

    And to say "no one would agree to that!" is just foolishness. Of course people would do it! The people who accost women outside Planned Parenthoods would sue. People looking to make a quick buck. Men looking to get back at their ex. That's the whole point, they put monetary incentive into it. It is intended to bring so many lawsuits against physicians, clinics, nurses, etc. that it effectively makes it impossible. Hell, you don't even have to live in Texas to sue someone for it.
     
  16. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Except you can bet your bottom dollar that there is a group collecting donations from all over the country to fund these suits. Your neighbor wont sue you directly but will rat you out to group with lawyers in the wings. No one has to prove direct harm to themselves. So ANYONE can sue.


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  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    6 weeks is too soon. MM and I had been trying to conceive unsuccessfully for awhile as well. My cycles were NOT 28 days but longer and inconsistent. When we finally got pregnant (I had no idea but I was extremely tired and MM insisted I go get tested) the Doctor estimated by the ultrasound that I was approximately 7 weeks along. Could have been underestimating but I delivered a full term baby two weeks earlier than the date they gave me but who delivers on time, right?

    Point is, is that it’s not easy to tell if you’re pregnant very early for some women for a variety of reasons. As I stated earlier, women of means (and their daughters) will be able to travel anywhere they can get the procedure. Who has to know why they’re “going on vacation” if they don’t shoot their mouth off.

    Moms in Texas are going to have to make sure their young daughters are on birth control of some kind, the pill, an IUD or whatever. Prevention will be key here. Young women should stock up now on the morning after meds and be sure to take them as directed after unprotected sex.

    The women who will suffer are the ones who will least be able to afford another child. Who may not have health insurance. They best get a plan that covers birth control if possible. If they can’t afford the monthly pills maybe an IUD is the way to go here.

    Most important, women in Texas are going to have to learn not to share every little thing with neighbors, friends or even relatives. They won’t show for three months so with a little creativity, cunning and luck they can get the procedure they want/need with no one being the wiser.
     
  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Yep, those are the "high profile" cases I was talking about.
     
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that it's not a "six weeks" bill, it's a "when the "heartbeat" is detected" bill. If the patient goes in at 6 *months* and the abortion provider doesn't detect a heartbeat? The abortion isn't a proscribed abortion. And do I think the same organization that under the table sells fetal body parts will develop poor hearing in Texas? Yes, I do.

    And I disagree that the women who can't afford to have another child will be the ones to suffer. The ones to suffer will be the ones of any income level that are irresponsible about their sexual activities. A lot of cities give out the "morning after" pill for *free*! In most others there are low or at cost services. If someone is unwilling to make use of them, whose fault is that? Maybe what we should do is go back to teaching young people about responsibility and not "do whatever you want, whenever you want" and there won't be as many irresponsible people out there.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The Supreme Court voted to deny an emergency appeal to implementing Texas' abortion-limiting law. It's the law -- for now.

    "
    WASHINGTON — A deeply divided Supreme Court is allowing a Texas law that bans most abortions to remain in force, for now stripping most women of the right to an abortion in the nation’s second-largest state.

    The court voted 5-4 to deny an emergency appeal from abortion providers and others that sought to block enforcement of the law that went into effect Wednesday. But the justices also suggested that their order likely isn't the last word on whether the law can stand because other challenges to it can still be brought.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-court-votes-5-4-to-leave-texas-abortion-law-in-place
     

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