Battle Royale Forums

Welcome to Battle Royale Forums. Join us today and become part of the growing group of survivors.

Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    6,626
    Likes Received:
    1,408
    It's a real mess though, and the difference is the Barrett nomination that occurred just before the election. People have unfairly gotten on John Roberts in the past. He's conservative, but sane and sided correctly in this case. We've been on a real descent since the 2016 election.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    Nope. He decided *incorrectly*, if anything. The Supreme Court made their decision and he was opposed to it.

    Personally, I wouldn't call Roberts a conservative, but think he's more left of center. He was hired on as a conservative, but that isn't how he actually acts.
     
  3. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    That’s fine as long as young men get the message about responsibility along with young women. As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. I’ve never been a proponent of “do what you want”. Prevention is always the key but women (and men) need the education, access and means to be able to do that on a consistent basis.

    I don’t know how easy it is to get preventive measures or the morning after meds in Texas, especially if you have crappy insurance or don’t have access to any kind of medical service other than the ER at a local hospital. And don’t fool yourself about women with money being able to obtain services that women without can’t. It always has been that way and unless we have some kind of single payer health system, always will be. Except for being out some money, they won’t suffer in the slightest.
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    You bet young men should get the same education, and then some! My focus would be on the young women though as they are going to be the ones in a tough situation after Romeo disappears, which he undoubtedly will.

    You know, on the cost thing, one of the frequent charges leveled against the prolife groups is that they only want to pay for a baby until its born, then the woman is on her own. Well, that street runs both ways. PP, Naral, etc. - those groups make TONS of money. If they really believe every poor woman should have access to abortion on demand, they should put their money where their mouth is and *pay* for these women to get the morning after pill, etc. I just looked on Walmart's website and their "morning after" pill was $11, retail. I'm sure PP could afford to buy a few of them for women who want them without going bankrupt, and doing so would go a long way to decrease their image of being an evil organization that murders babies for the money they make doing so.
     
  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    I would imagine that PP has the morning after meds if there is a clinic available for women to go to. You can probably also get RU 486 which can be used up 10 weeks for a medical vs surgical abortion. You have to have access to a clinic to receive those meds but now that we’re in the age of online shopping maybe women can have certain over the counter meds delivered directly to their homes. Who’s gonna know what’s in those fed ex boxes. Walmart’s prices sound like a good deal.

    Here are some interesting tidbits I found about Texas and abortions:

    https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-texas

    here’s one thing, relative to ease of access that I found interesting in the article:

    There were 35 facilities providing abortion in Texas in 2017, and 21 of those were clinics. These numbers represent a 25% decline in clinics from 2014, when there were 44 abortion-providing facilities overall, of which 28 were clinics.[1]

    In 2017, some 96% of Texas counties had no clinics that provided abortions, and 43% of Texas women lived in those counties.[1]

    Not so easy, eh? If you can’t travel you could be out of luck with that route.

    As for your other assertion, I could say the same thing about conservatives who try to impede the rights of women to decide if they should have a child or not. Do they step in to help women raising these children? No, but they’ll bitch about the number of women on the welfare roles. They’d rather see children go hungry, or live in conditions that may be less than desirable.
     
  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    The counties that are too small to have a dedicated abortion clinic are most likely NOT too small to have a Walmart, Target, local pharmacy, etc., so the other side of the coin is that most women probably *do* have access to some form of after sex abortifacient if they want it relatively near their house in their own county. I realize that's not in PP's business model or in line with Guttmacher's narrative to say that, but is none the less true. And if a county has too few people in it to even support a pharmacy they are going to have WAY too few people to possibly support an abortionist.

    I wondered what the most sparsely populated county in Texas was, and it's the appropriately named, "Loving, Texas". The whole county has 64 people in it. I doubt if PP's business model would have them ever putting in a clinic for the country residents even if Texas was as proabortion as could be. To support a doctor, nurse, secretary, a building, pay the utility bills, etc. ... assuming that maybe a quarter of the residents were women in their child bearing years - or about 16 or so women - each of them would have to have multiple abortions *per day* to keep that facility open, and I doubt that is a realistic scenario. My point? Not all counties need everything. My second point in that regard? There aren't that many skilled providers in ANY field of medicine to spam things out all over the place, and sometimes it's better to have 100 good physicians at referral centers than it is to have 1000 poor ones spread out to every small town.
     
  7. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    LOL, that’s certainly true that medical providers don’t often want to move to the sticks when they can receive higher compensation in more populated areas, unless there’s some deal in place to forgive some or all of the debt they incurred to get their medical education and training.

    What most conservatives don’t want to acknowledge when they try to defund or close PP clinics is that providing abortions is only one part of what they provide for women.


    The essential health care services Planned Parenthood provides, like: STD testing and treatment, birth control, well-woman exams, cancer screening and prevention, abortion, hormone therapy, infertility services, and general health care.

    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/facts-figures

    That to me is once again women’s needs being pushed aside in the myopic pursuit of one particular agenda.

    However, like you suggested, and I thought was a great idea, was that women can use online shopping to at least get OTC morning after pills but this doesn’t replace being able to get well rounded medical care.

    *Oh, I wanted to add that living in a state that encourages you to pry into your neighbor’s business and inform on them, it’s best to use online shopping rather than in person shopping at their local big box.
     
    #6547 purriwinkle, Sep 2, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    ? We were talking about the new law in Texas' effects, I never said anything about shutting down PP clinics. Also, even if abortion was made illegal and PP couldn't perform abortions or sell fetal body parts to researchers NO ONE said they couldn't keep doing their other good work like performing cancer screening and prevention, etc.

    I tell you though, this conversation has brought something to my attention, and that is there probably are a decent number of poor women in rural areas who don't have the best access to what are now OTC after the fact birth control methods. If these can now be sold online, there really isn't a reason a charity couldn't provide them for free or at cost to people online as well, especially by a "localish" charity that would know when they were/weren't being scammed by bots with local p.o. boxes, etc. I personally wouldn't be comfortable running such a local charity, but I have some competent friends who might be, and I think I'll run the idea by them to see if it's a good idea, or an awful idea. Who knows?
     
  9. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    19,437
    Likes Received:
    1,764
    I wonder if this new bill will allow the arrest of women who have miscarriages.


    The truth is out there
     
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    No. My understanding is a fetal heartbeat would need to be detected for it to be considered an abortion under this law which would not be the case in a D&C after a miscarriage.
     
    #6550 Morgotha, Sep 3, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  11. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    19,437
    Likes Received:
    1,764
    Now imagine being that woman who just lost a baby. And your crappy neighbor or a disgruntled coworker, who wants to collect the $10,000 bounty, turns her in.
    Under this new law, that woman would be jailed, go before a court, and have to prove that she miscarried and not aborted.
    That could be dangerous on her mental health.

    The same scenario could happen to women who have just lost weight, has a mean ex, dark skinned or is just bullied.
    And with guns being handed out now to anyone who wants one….
    Texas could become a Purge state.


    The truth is out there
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    What? The law carries NO criminal penalties for abortion, so how do you figure she'll be jailed? She won't be. They don't even put armed robbers in jail these days.

    And if there's someone with a serious grudge against you who is willing to perjure themselves, stalk or bully you, etc., they can make your life a living Hell with or without this law.

    Also, there's nothing to say she can't countersue anyone who accuses her of having an abortion when she didn't for mental stress, etc. In this case she'd be able to make the mean ex pay.

    I'll give you credit for one thing, at least you didn't start ranting about "going back to back-alley abortions" and women dying in the streets.
     
  13. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    19,437
    Likes Received:
    1,764
    Why is suing the people’s answer to everything.
    Losing a child, then having to go through that crap, is not worth getting rich over.

    And as far as “back-alley abortions”, it is still FEDERALLY legal to get an abortion. And if a woman wanted to terminate an early pregnancy, I’m sure she could conveniently take a vacation to a state that allows it.

    What’s hypocritical is that Texas men, just weeks ago, were yelling “my body, my choice”.


    The truth is out there
     
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    Suing is what this law allows people to do. Also, it is becoming the answer as the states are refusing to prosecute criminals through the criminal justice system. IOW, if the state won't protect you, you have to protect yourself with the means available to you.

    I don't think they are being hypocritical at all. They are just listening to the babies saying, "it's my choice to be born, don't kill me".
     
  15. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    19,437
    Likes Received:
    1,764
    I hope you never have to lose a child, then go through the emotional pain afterwards. I will tell you, IT SUCKS.

    I can’t imagine having to also prove that I didn’t abort my baby on top of it.

    And yes, it’s hypocritical.
    They seem to only care about the fetus, and not about the live children.


    The truth is out there
     
  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    In some spheres I'm not willing to discuss my own sorrows in life, but I'm sorry for your loss. I don't mean that in the current "thanks for your service" way, I truly am.

    I can't imagine any woman having to prove she didn't have an abortion. As I understand it the burden is on the accuser, not the accused.

    I don't think it's hypocrisy. People have different motivations, and some are affected by the horror of one situation differently than others. While some people may be affected primarily by the miserable living situation of some children the most, others might be most affected by abortion. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't fault anyone who's working to achieve progress in one area for not working on the other area as well. So I don't think a children's advocate who is not also an anti-abortion advocate is a hypocrite, nor do I see an anti-abortion activist who isn't advocating for children as a hypocrite. There are only so many hours in a day, and each person can't do everything.
     
    #6556 Morgotha, Sep 3, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    Here's a winner for you.Two women got in a fender bender (no injuries) in Cinncinnati, and started arguing about it. One woman left and came back with this man who grabbed a gun *while holding a baby* and started shooting at the other woman, hitting her in the arm.

    Meh, at least he's doing his part watching the kids, I suppose.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...damage-car-crash-police/ar-AAO4kGn?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  18. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    19,437
    Likes Received:
    1,764
    This incident has absolutely nothing to do with the subject we were discussing. Nothing.
    Unless your point was that a black man put his child in danger. Does he live in Texas? Does he spout “pro-life”?
    If so, then you actually proved my point.


    The truth is out there
     
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    ??? You know, now would be a good time to sit outside, have a glass of wine, and relax. I wasn't trying to tie this post to our discussion. I was just surprised to see some man shooting at someone while holding a baby. Couldn't he just leave the baby in the car? It follows under the thread title of "craziness", it has nothing to do with the abortion discussion.

    If I was trying to tie it to our discussion I'd be asking to keep the baby and abort the gun-wielding father!
     
  20. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Just an informative post on suing in small claims court. I looked up Texas and the ceiling for monetary damages there is 10,000 so I’m assuming that’s where they expect all the “suing” to go on. I don’t know all the ins and outs of this new law but it’s interesting to review the process of going to small claims court to begin with:


    Timing, Costs, and Fees for Small Claims Court
    Most states have a statute of limitations of two years for many minor cases handled in small claims court. This means you will need to assess the problem and file the claim at your local court within two years of the day the problem occurred. Some states allow up to four years if the issue involves a spoken or written contract.

    You can expect to pay:

    • A filing fee up to $150
    • Court clerk services costs
    • Court fees
    • Any specific dollar amount a judge decides for settlement
    Remember: There is a dollar limit on the money you can win in a small claims case. It is common for states to cap it at $3,000-$20,000. If that amount is not good enough, then you need to consider taking your case to a different court (which may require you to get an attorney).

    What Should I Expect in the Process?
    During the small claims lawsuit filing and preparation for your case, you can expect to:

    • Gather your own evidence and be able to summarize your side of the story (called a statement)
    • Talk to witnesses you can use in your defense
    • Figure out the correct name and address of the person you want to sue (or the business name and address)
    • Decide how much money you want from the other person (called the defendant) and be able to discuss why this is a logical amount
    • Fill out the correct forms in the county where you live or the county where the problem took place
    • Pay all fees and court costs on time and to the correct person
    • Have a court date set and serve the other person with the claim (in some cases, you may have to tell them about the court date yourself)
    • Wait for the other side to answer you (if they do not fight back before the court date, you will automatically win)
    Once you actually go to court, you can expect to:

    • Attend your hearing date (this can be frustrating or emotional as both sides blame the other for the problem)
    • Attend all jury trial dates if the judge determines the case needs a trial
    After the case concludes, you will:

    • Hear the final result (called a "court judgment") or receive a "money judgment" by certified mail
    • Follow the judge's instructions to return personal property, pay fines, be paid a settlement, or other retribution, or file an appeal if you do not like the outcome of the case.
    Appeals often need to be filed quickly, so it is in your best interest to file the appeal right away. There are also more nuanced instructions and processes during the appeal. This might be a good time to get an attorney so your case has a better chance the second time around.

    Getting Your Money After Winning
    If you won the court judgment or money judgment, your battle might not be over yet. Some people will refuse to pay you, or they may need a payment plan. The courts will not help you get the money you won.

    You will have to take steps to get the money, which could include:

    • Getting "levy" access to their bank account
    • Taking their wages directly from their paycheck
    • Taking property valued at the same amount of money (taking their car if they cannot pay)
    • Using the local courts to find out what assets the person has
    • Sending a questionnaire asking how the person will pay or what assets they own
    • Asking the other person questions about their assets while they are under oath
    You can also consider getting an attorney just for this part of the case because it can be troublesome or time-consuming. If you know you are trying to collect $10,000, then an attorney's fees can feel like less of a burden. Or you may need to make a choice between not getting your money or paying an attorney to help you.

    Carefully consider your options and decide what creates the best outcome for you.


    If people are willing to go through all that rigmarole my fervent hope is that the Texas legal system is so overwhelmed with frivolous law cases that they have to amend this part of the bill.

    Remember there may be counter suits as well. If the people involved end up hiring lawyers to pursue any judgement they might be out more than they think they’re gonna collect. At least the lawyers will be winners.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice