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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    That was meant as a joke. Actually, I like the fact that he discusses his pov in a reasonable way. He gives the decision to women but then asks for the same sort of "freedom" for men, saying:

    "If you can kill this Mother F*****, I can at least abandon him. That's fair."

    meaning if the woman gets to decide to have the child or not the man should also get to decide whether or not to be a part of its life.

    Which seems reasonable at least.
     
  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Not the current batch. Ive got opinions on both sides if the aisle. We seem to have lost moderate right. At least as a popular stance.


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  3. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    His wording is clever. Pointing to the hypocrisy. If a man shouldn’t be involved then he shouldn’t have to be involved. If he has to be involved then he should be allowed to be involved. Does It take two to tango or does one person dance alone in front of someone else?


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  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It's rather an unique situation. The child is the result of two people tangoing, but the physical demands and even potential for death from pregnancy rest only on the (biological) mother. How do you make something really "fair" in a situation like that?
     
  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Are you kidding me? For every woman there IS a choice to be made when she finds out she’s pregnant.

    I would hope for most women, the pregnancy would be welcomed. For others, not so much. If you can’t afford it, if you’re not ready, if you simply don’t want to be a mother, if you were trying to avoid a pregnancy but the method you chose failed or even if you were the victim of rape or incest.

    Does that mean a woman has to abstain from sex? It’s not the dark ages. Vaginal intercourse, while the means of propagating the species, doesn’t have to be the goal of the act. If the law, which is a function of society, doesn’t allow an unintended pregnancy to be terminated within reasonable time limits, and the woman has no means to circumvent the law in her state, then she IS compelled to carry the pregnancy until term. I can’t understand why that’s such a difficult concept.

    As far as the number of abortions being a bit lower than it was in 1973, that’s great I guess but I don’t like to make it a habit to put my nose in other women’s personal business. That between her and her doctor and anyone else she wants to include. The state should stay out of it.
     
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  6. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing the morning after pill would be one reason why abortions are lower than in 1973. It's sad that 50 years later women now are now facing the loss of their own bodily autonomy.
     
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  7. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Republican moderates have been driven out, particularly in Washington. The governors of Maryland and Massachusetts would fit that category. It's the only way they could've won in those states, but they are clear outliers with no standing in their party.

    I don't have any hope about it changing either.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    You know what I mean about choice from a biological perspective, I don't know why you're acting like you don't. Of course every woman has the "choice" to kill her developing baby, and women have been doing this throughout history.

    The same choice exists *after* the baby is born, btw. How do you feel about a mother killing her unwanted newborn? The Romans and Greeks not only saw nothing wrong with killing their children, the right (and in the case of "deformity", the obligation) to do so was the law. Say a month goes by after delivery and the mother decides the child is too much of a burden. Do you think it should be legal for the parents to kill their child? If not, why are you trying to legislate YOUR morality and the expense of raising said child on society?

    You have to stop killing somewhere.
     
    #7428 Morgotha, May 6, 2022
    Last edited: May 6, 2022
  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The last report was in Shanghai from a few days ago, now one from Peru. The start of the Zombie Apocalypse?


    "
    Rosa Isabel Cespedes Callaca was reportedly being buried April 26 when, in the midst of a funeral procession in Peru, mourners carrying her coffin heard a strange knocking sound from inside the coffin.

    It was Callaca, who was actually alive and found to be gasping for air when the coffin was placed on the ground.

    "(She) opened her eyes and was sweating," Juan Segundo Cajo, the caretaker of the cemetery, described the scene. "I immediately went to my office and called the police.""

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ddle-of-her-own-funeral/ar-AAWXmm6?li=BBnbfcL
     
  10. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    This is your typical straw man argument. If you want to discuss the biological issue of a pregnancy always proceeding smoothly until birth you absolutely know that there are often biological reasons that that doesn’t always happen. It called miscarriage and there are many reasons to name of few:

    What causes miscarriage?
    • Infection.
    • Exposure to environmental and workplace hazards such as high levels of radiation or toxic agents.
    • Hormonal irregularities.
    • Improper implantation of fertilized egg in the uterine lining.
    • Maternal age.
    • Uterine abnormalities.
    • Incompetent cervix.
    https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9688-miscarriage
    Causes
    Sometimes a baby is lost close to birth or during the birth process and are referred to as still born. Causes can range from pre-eclampsia or say the umbilical cord wrapped around the babies neck. Modern medical care can often save those children but not always.
    The cause is not always known (1/3 of stillbirths cannot be explained), but the most likely causes include:
    • Problems with the placenta and/or the umbilical cord. ...
    • Preeclampsia. ...
    • Lupus. ...
    • Clotting disorders. ...
    • The mother's medical conditions. ...
    • Lifestyle choices. ...
    • Birth defects. ...
    • Infection.
    More items...
    https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9685-stillbirth


    So what’s your point? Women have been losing babies throughout history from biological reasons as well. Shit happens.

    Infanticide as we understand it in modern times is not what’s up for discussion although pro birth conservatives love to conflate the two issues.
     
  11. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    People die "naturally" every day. Some are 20 weeks old when they die, and some are 100 years old. That's mother nature for you, and she's a toughie. However, we don't say that because some infants, children, and adults "naturally" die early that murder should be legal and *morally acceptable*. How come it magically becomes acceptable to kill someone immediately before their birth but suddenly becomes murder as soon as they are born?

    What straw man are you talking about?
     
  12. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    That’s where the issue of “viability” comes in. If the fetus can’t survive outside the womb, approximately 24 weeks, then can it be said that it is a separate entity from the mother? Late term abortions are considered rare and are often performed for medical reasons. So setting a reasonable time frame of say…20 weeks to be absolutely sure there would be no survival of the fetus separated from the womb seems reasonable to me with exemptions as deemed necessary by a physician.

    My personal feelings have always been the sooner the better. The morning after pills are the best but I try not to judge.

    As for the living, I also support physician assisted suicide under qualifying circumstances. So I’m in favor of the Death With Dignity Act and hope it gains traction.
     
    #7432 purriwinkle, May 9, 2022
    Last edited: May 9, 2022
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  13. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Im drunk and laying on the floor. Yet i can still see that the problem is that everyone thinks their opinion is the only valid one.. we always fail to realize that we living together with individuals who are are also trying to live with us. Instead of telling others they have to live by our values, we need them to understand that we just want to live by ours. You live by yours and let us live by ours. Thats what freedom means.


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  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    So you believe in the "abolish Roe" position. Don't let 9 unelected judges in the Federal Government force a mandate of legality on the nation, let the people in the States decide what's legal and what's not. When Congress, otoh, gets off its collective rump and actually *passes a law* on the subject, that will become the law of the land for everyone. Makes sense to me.
     
  15. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    It isn’t even nine, its five who made a decision to take a freedom away from millions who want it. Not only that but Clarence Thomas was offended that the people who he is making decisions for are angry that he made a decision they disagree with. He literally said that “You have to accept outcomes” even the ones you don’t like. Well this outcome was settled 50 years ago and has stood up countless times. Does it sound like he is accepting the outcome he didn’t like? This is unpopular not only in liberal states but also among people living in conservative states. If the entire state was antiabortion, no one would be getting one and they wouldn’t HAVE to ban it. States can have their own idiosyncrasies but ultimately, they are not separate countries. It is the UNITED states not the separate states. This also opens the door for conservatives to sue doctors and patients for abortions performed in liberal states because it is no longer a protected right. The supreme court will then uphold it making THAT precedent. Trust me conservatives aren’t looking to end this at state borders this was a decision meant to affect ALL states.


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  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Actually, it was the seven members of the Warren court who inflicted their unfair ruling on the country 50 years ago that caused the current problem, and like Clarence Thomas said, the more conservative side of the country as had to accept the outcome of that decision countless times since then. I disagree with Judge Thomas, btw. Just because a wrong has existed for 50 years that doesn't mean we should just accept it, we should do our part as citizens to try and *correct* it.

    The main issue here is that the Supreme Court should NEVER have made up the right to privacy and legalized abortion based on the right they invented. Passing laws and Constitutional amendments is the job of *Congress*, not the Supreme Court.

    The best thing that could happen in this situation is to have Roe overturned and Congress to finally do its job and pass a law on abortion one way or the other - OR, for Congress to admit they can't pass a law on the subject and let the decision be made by the elected officials in the states who can. Something so important should be decided by the People through their elected officials, not by a handful of judges who are accountable to no one.
     
    #7436 Morgotha, May 12, 2022
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Three *middle school* boys are being charged with sexual harassment for not using the pronouns a transgender student wanted them to. Apparently they called him "he, and him" rather than "they, and them" like the student wanted.

    It's an odd use of English, IMO. For example, in my sentence above, instead of writing "Apparently they asked him", to keep the student happy and myself from getting charged with sexual harassment, I should have written "Apparently they asked them" which... sounds odd.

    Individualizing pronouns seems like a lot of work to put people through, especially if you'd get charged with a crime for not remembering every person's choices.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fairfax-schools-rules-suspend-students-malicious-misgendering
     
  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    So in England a gang of "trans rights" protestors put a noose around the neck of Emmeline Pankhurst's statue (without whom American women may not have been acknowledged to have the right to vote as quickly as we did) and assaulted some woman trying to get to her statue.

    You can't tell who these "trans rights" people are as they are all wearing masks, but regardless of what gender they claim to be, they sure *act* like a pack of angry young men.

    I guess... I'm having trouble figuring out what the "trans" people's issue is. Mrs. Pankhurst is a hero for fighting for the rights of women. These trans men claim to BE women, so... they are fighting to have less rights for themselves? What sense does that make?

    [​IMG]

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1525865362750902272

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/jk-rowling-trans-activists-attacking-feminist
     
    #7438 Morgotha, May 16, 2022
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A Twitter executive is caught on tape mocking Elon Musk's Asperger's diagnosis. So... not really open-minded after all.

    "
    Elon Musk called out a Twitter executive who was caught mocking the billionaire's Asperger's in a newly-released video from Project Veritas.

    Alex Martinez, identified by Project Veritas as Twitter's Lead Client Partner, was recorded knocking his incoming boss, decrying the Tesla CEO's mission to reform the platform's policies in favor of free speech.

    "He has Asperger's. So he's special!" Martinez told an undercover Project Veritas journalist in a video released Tuesday. "You're special needs! You're literally special needs."

    "So I can't even take what you're saying seriously," Martinez added. "

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/elon-musk-twitter-project-veritas-alex-martinez
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Here's something odd. Portugal had what they called a "Golden Visa" program, offering residency (a Portuguese green card?) to anyone who bought a house there worth $500,000 or more. I suppose the plan was to lure in wealthy people from other countries to stimulate their economy.

    The funny thing is, it was too successful and the program has had to be suspended given the inflation that has resulted in Portugal from the gentrification. The stranger thing is that the people moving to Portugal have been overwhelmingly... Californians! :eek: Who would have thought prices would be so bad in Calif. that people would defect to Portugal???

    The sad part for California, of course, is that these aren't the poor who utilize social services and cost the state, they are the wealthy who were the ones paying the bills who are leaving. LOL, I knew there was an outmigration of high-tax-payers from the state to places like Texas and Florida, but I didn't know the exodus was *international*. That's shocking!:eek::eek:

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/portuguese-influx-californians-import-problems
     

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