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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Something to make you sick. A woman was in the Tops market during the mass shooting and called 911. She was apparently whispering in to the phone so as not to attract the shooters attention, and... the 911 operator hung up on her for whispering when some psycho was shooting up the store she was in! :eek::eek::eek: I give this woman a LOT of credit for having the presence of mind to call 911 and not just hide or run away. The fact that the 911 operator would *hang up on her*? Inexcusable. Criminally irresponsible for someone given responsibility for public safety. That 911 operator should be charged with something as a deterrent to others not to repeat this behavior.



    "
    "I tried to call 911, and I was whispering because I could hear him close by," Latisha told WGRZ.

    "And when I whispered on the phone to 911, the dispatcher started yelling at me saying 'Why are you whispering? You don't have to whisper.' And I'm trying to tell her like, 'Ma'am, he's in the store. He's shooting. It's an active shooter. I'm scared for my life.' And she said something crazy to me and then she hung up in my face."

    Latisha said she had to call her boyfriend and tell him to call 911. She claims he is the one who got through and got emergency services to the scene."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ting-is-now-off-the-job/ar-AAXqAmC?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Craziness, part cinq: A medical doctor, Dr. Yashica Robinson, testified before Congress and said that men could become pregnant and have abortions. This female physician also after multiple attempts to evade the question could not, or would not define what a "woman" is. She then defined a human being as someone that has been born, "that's why we have birthdays". Her alma mater, Morehouse, must be proud.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-committee-witness-men-get-pregnant-have-abortions
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Elon Musk tells his executives that if they want to be paid for working at Tesla they have to... actually work there. Wouldn't it be nice if we could dump Sleepy Joe and No Show Buttigieg and replace them with someone with Musk's work ethic?

    "
    Elon Musk, chief executive officer of Tesla Inc., waded into the return-to-office debate on Twitter by elaborating on an email he apparently sent Tuesday to the electric-car maker’s executive staff.

    Under the subject line “Remote work is no longer acceptble” [sic], Musk wrote that “anyone who wishes to do remote work must be in the office for a minimum (and I mean *minimum*) of 40 hours per week or depart Tesla. This is less than we ask of factory workers.”

    The CEO went on to specify that the office “must be a main Tesla office, not a remote branch office unrelated to the job duties, for example being responsible for Fremont factory human relations, but having your office be in another state.”

    While Musk didn’t directly address whether the email is authentic, he strongly suggested it is by responding to a follower asking him to address people who think going into work is an antiquated concept. “They should pretend to work somewhere else,” he replied."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/oth...o-the-office-or-get-out/ar-AAXX7HA?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  4. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Johnny Depp won his defamation case. I didn't watch the trial but saw video clips and read some articles on what was going on. In the end I think it came down to the jury not believing Heard. Depp admitted his flaws and had a consistent story. His legal team was top notch too, and they brought in credible witnesses. It was the opposite for Heard. So I think the right decision was made here.

    It's an important point too because the Me Too movement went too far in the sense that the push was to believe all women, as if one gender is incapable of lying. The approach all along should have been to listen to all claims and take them seriously. But you need evidence to back up your charges. That should not be controversial, it's the basis for any investigation into a potential crime.
     
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  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your premise that all claims must be taken seriously and the results based on evidence presented. I did not watch this trial. The situation was a train wreck and quite frankly, I felt both parties were attention seeking hoes for them to be continuously dragging their dirty laundry up in not one but two defamation trials.

    This situation of domestic abuse was tried in the UK and Amber Heard apparently won that round. It was tried before a judge there and with a jury here. Here’s a couple of articles that discuss why there were two different verdicts.

    https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-verdict-evidence-truth.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61673676

    My advice is that the first time your partner, be it male or female, lies a hand on you in a violent manner you don’t wait for the apology the next day and try to forgive them. You don’t try to reform them. You get the hell out, even if you’re in disbelief, even if you love them, even if you want to give them a second chance.

    When you’re in a safe place, you let them know you’ll only return when they seek professional help or agree to participate in couples therapy. Then you go from there depending on the response. Never return without some outside intervention and the understanding that if there ever is a next time, they’ll be dealing with the police.

    Just my two cents. Stay tuned for round three as I read somewhere Ms. Heard is filing an appeal.
     
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  6. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I heard the UK one was a bit sketchy because evidence and testimony was excluded by the judge and there was talk of some impropriety there. The UK justice system too is even more problematic than our own. But I don't know enough about it all beyond those assessments that I read.

    You're right about the whole domestic violence approach. That's certainly what I would do if I was in that situation. But the perpetrators that do these sort of things are good at pinpointing their victims. In this case Depp is more of an introvert type and he supposedly was abused by his mother too. I don't understand the psychology either, but just trying to make sense of it.

    For instance there is this taped recording of Depp and Heard, after she put in the restraining order and he had filed for divorce. She went up to San Francisco where he was, and he even met her....after all that went on. He was talking about the final straw was when he was just sitting in bed and she walked around and started pummeling him.

    Like you it's not something I would put up with either. Not only taking this abuse, but then after all is said and done STILL meeting with your abuser. There's something broken there, and it doesn't surprise me that he has such deep problems with drugs and alcohol.
     
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  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Be careful who you hitch up with if you don't want to end up pregnant, alone, and eventually decapitated. I don't know why it bothers me so much (compared to the fact he murdered her), but after murdering her this killer took her head and threw it in a dumpster.

    A 22-year-old who was eight months pregnant was decapitated in her home by her ex-boyfriend, who now faces murder charges, police said.

    Deundrea Holloway, 22, has been charged with murder, intentional homicide of an unborn child and several other crimes in connection to the June 9 murder of Liese Dodd.

    Dodd’s mother went to her home to check on her last week and found her dead, police in Alton, Illinois said.

    Police Chief Marcos Pulido said the couple were in an ‘on-again off-again relationship’ that lasted two years. Dodd was expected to deliver her child in late July.

    Holloway has also been accused of abandoning Dodd’s head in a dumpster, court records show.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-eight-months-pregnant/ar-AAYv6FN?li=BBnbfcL
     
    #7447 Morgotha, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Oregon decriminalized the possession of small amounts of hard drugs such as fentanyl, heroin, etc. as part of a help the addict, don't criminalize plan in 2020. What have the results been? Well, since then deaths from drug overdoses have increased 40%, and both property and violent crimes are up. I'm sure its proponents will blame the pandemic, but it's pretty easy to see that making drug use acceptable has resulted in more drug use, not less.

    "
    In November 2020, voters overwhelmingly passed Measure 110. The Drug Addiction Treatment and Recovery Act secured 58% of the votes and decriminalized possession of small amounts of hard drugs such as heroin, meth, cocaine and fentanyl.

    The new law made possession of those substances no more than a Class E violation, the equivalent of a traffic ticket punishable by a maximum $100 fine. But the fine is dismissed when someone who is fined calls a help hotline, Lines for Life, and completes a health assessment. The idea is to connect drug abusers with services and treatment instead of putting them behind bars.

    Sixteen months into this first-in-the-nation experiment, the numbers paint a bleak picture. Drug overdose deaths hit an all-time high in 2021 with 1069, a 41% increase from 2020. And very few people are getting into treatment. According to The Lund Report, after one year, just 136 people had entered treatment, less than 1% of those helped by Measure 110. But the actual number may be even lower."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-drug-decriminalization-effort-tragedy
     
  9. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    What a stupid policy. There's no such thing as a "small amount" of heroin or meth. Once people get hooked on that stuff it's a road to ruin.
     
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  10. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I understand the sentiment behind the law because the addict is small fish. Unless, the addict is apprehended in the commission of a crime while in possession of the drug, what’s the point of criminalizing a small amount in possession?

    What happens is that incarceration is going to end up becoming detox at the state’s expense. Why don’t they make it mandatory to commit offenders to a treatment program that they must complete in order to have their records wiped and/or fines dropped? Maybe the state will still be on hook financially but the jails won’t be full with addicts whose only offense might be possession. If they’ve committed theft, assault, murder etc. that’s a different ball game.

    Then, as you say, hard drugs are nasty business. What are those authorities doing to go after the dealers then? Has there been an increased effort to get them off the streets? We also know big pharma had a hand in creating an opiate crisis. There’s been some justice with Perdue and the Sackler family but many lives were ruined. I don’t know. I think the situation is much more complicated than FOX would like it’s readers to know or God forbid, think about.
     
  11. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Criminalizing possession and giving people a criminal record as a result might deter some people from using in the first place, so... beneficial. Also, DEcriminalizing has resulted in increased overdoses and property crimes, so... harmful.

    The trouble with making these programs mandatory is that people just don't show up. And considering they know the state won't incarcerate them if they don't, why should they? And what really is the state going to do to them? Throw them in jail? Too expensive. Take their welfare and other benefits away? The left will scream this is inhumane and leads to more crime. Nope, there's no easy solution. The best answer IMO is to get a big plot of land out in the middle of nowhere that's hard to "walk away" from and put offenders on it. Feed people from a central spot a couple times a day, and otherwise they're on their own. Obviously, the state would collect their welfare benefits for them during this time, so they can in some way, "pay" for their incarceration. IOW, prison on the cheap, en masse. If nothing else, they would be off the streets and not victimizing innocent citizens.

    Yes, the state should go after the dealers as well, but as long as money can be made selling, someone will always sell. Both the dealers AND the customers have to be removed to really decrease the problem.
     
    #7451 Morgotha, Jun 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  12. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that it makes it easier for drug dealers to do their business if you can't arrest them for having a small amount of heroin or meth. It's why the drug trade is flourishing in Oregon. They're making it more difficult for cops to do their job.

    Heroin or meth are not what one would call "recreational drugs." Once you go down that path it's complete ruin.

    The approach America has taken to marijuana makes sense. Even John Boehner is now involved in the industry. But it's just not possible to go down that same road with lethal drugs.
     
  13. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Let’s not forget this is not a new problem. Opiates and addicts have been around for a long time. One big difference is todays media coverage allows the problem to be widely known. Public attitudes have changes over time as well as what groups of people were particularly susceptible to it’s addictive properties.
    Here’s some articles on the subject:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...icas-19th-century-opiate-addiction-180967673/

    https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-history/

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/buyers/socialhistory.html

    A lot of these drugs had their start as medical treatments which we still have a problem with in our time. A lot of the harder drugs are now used recreationally but seriously, you’ve got to be a little bit stupid to think you can indulge in the hard stuff and not suffer any harmful side effects. So yeah, get them off the street…that means go after the business end and get people in treatment. Like it stated in the Smithsonian article:
    “If you can make it more difficult and expensive to get supply, at the same time that you make treatment on demand available to people, then that’s a good strategy.”

    Cut the head off the snake. I know, not so easy as cartels and organized crime (and doctors, lol, jk) are hard to take down and the brave officers involved in both organized crime and narcotics face difficult and dangerous situations.

    But what else? Sure, jail all the addicts if you can, but as long as you have goofy kids looking for a high, people in pain either physically or mentally, or whatever situation drives people to indulge in horrendously harmful activities, the dealers will always have new clients. If someone overdoses, that’s on them. They should have known the risks, IMO, although my sympathies are extended to their families who undoubtable went through hell dealing with this.
     
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  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Here's something really crazy in a "how the memory works" kind of way. I saw this video/story on MSN today from California about some old white men yelling at a tamale vendor and I knew right away where they were, and I mean I knew to within the block of the street. Also, I haven't been to that area in at least 10 years, and probably more like 20, yet I saw it so clearly it was like I was standing there.

    I double checked on Google Maps, and yep, that's where those houses are, right across the street from Little Company of Mary in San Pedro.

    Crazy, huh?

    LOL, it just goes to show, if you're going to commit a crime, don't post it online. Who knows who's watching and will know where you are?

    [​IMG]

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ale-vendor-in-san-pedro/ar-AAYzdUs?li=BBnb7Kz


    Morgotha's Image google maps

    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.737...4!1sBflBciQtFh02gKWAeM_XIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
     
    #7454 Morgotha, Jun 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  15. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, I agree with emphasizing treatment. It's the same with the lack of mental health services in this country. That ties in as well. The problem though is that there is not enough focus in these areas, and with that being the case the one tool we do still have is to crack down on the other side of it, the possession of the hard drugs. It's more of a quality of life thing in the short term. That's if we ever get out act together, and that doesn't seem like it's happening anytime soon.

    My original point too just addressed arresting people for possession of hard drugs. That doesn't necessarily mean indicting them. If it shows a pattern, then you do so. What I meant is that if you don't have the appropriate net you're not going to catch the dealers, and you make it easier for them to operate.
     
  16. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    The opioid crises is definitely a thorny problem. I came across two interesting articles on the subject while going through my news feed. Both interesting points of view.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics...tion-opioid-epidemic-home-invasion-theft.html

    https://www.wired.com/story/the-story-youve-heard-about-cities-drugs-and-mental-illness-is-wrong/

    I appreciate reading all the viewpoints but I’ve never had to personally deal with anyone, either close family or friends, who have had this problem. My home, even when I lived in the city, has never been burgled. My purse has never been stolen. (Excuse me while I go knock on wood, lol). Maybe that skews my viewpoint because to me this is mainly a theoretical issue. I have no skin in the game so to speak although I realize this is very real for many, many American families. Heart breaking and scary all at the same time.
     
  17. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    The Wired piece bothered me because of this line: "Calling San Francisco and other places “failed” cities for liberal policies is bad journalism."

    While I agree about calling cities failed due to liberal policies is wrong, lumping San Francisco in there destroys their whole argument. They can't defend what's gone on there. It's largely due to the DA Chesa Boudin, who refused to prosecute normal cases, and quality of life there has plummeted. It's why he was recalled a few weeks ago.

    It's like trying to lump Bernie Sanders in with Democrats. You're going to lose your battle.

    A better approach would've been to point out that while crime has risen in many cities, it's actually dropped in Boston. That's a very liberal place, so point out what they're doing right etc. They can't defend San Francisco's failed policies.

    I'm so frustrated at how dug in some people have become, and it's disturbing to see it infiltrate some liberals as well. They'll defend something failed because it's from their POV. That's what Republicans have done and why we have this cult of personality around Trump.

    And now we have some pushing that inflation or gas prices aren't that bad. You see them saying it's worse elsewhere. But that doesn't matter for those people suffering here. None of us would've accepted that excuse from Trump during Covid. Hey, feel better because the death rate in Brazil is much higher!
     
  18. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I hesitate to comment on what’s happening on the West Coast, let alone San Francisco cause I’ve never been there or lived there. I think it’s rather snooty to dive into the local politics of any city that I don’t have personal knowledge of. I’m going to assume that you do so I’ll take your word for it. I, on the other hand, have to rely on articles that can convey the exact opposite opinions so I’m left to come to my own conclusions which might be totally off base.

    I have never considered living on the west coast although it looks beautiful. It has no “pull” for me. Climate disasters and the perceived high cost of living alone have served to deter any thought of moving across the country and we’re not even delving into the issues of high crime and/or the opioid crises. I wish the residents there the best of luck as they try to pursue the right course of action to solve problems they deal with.

    As for gas prices and inflation, it’s not that it’s “not so bad” but we’ve been there before and we’ve gotten through it. I remember the last time gas prices were quite high in the seventies. People car pooled, bought smaller more gas efficient vehicles, and traveled less. There are ways of coping and IMO if people learned to, in effect, manage their financials better it might not hurt so much. I really believe people tend to live beyond their means and extend themselves financially when perhaps they shouldn’t. Of course, I don’t walk in their shoes but then again I’m cheap, LOL, and look for ways to save a buck whenever I can.

    Actually, it’s another sticky wicket when it comes to high gas prices as explained in the following article:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/06/14/business/gas-prices.html
    “There have been two oil price crashes in the past eight years, and many executives believe that another one is inevitable. That has made them hesitant to drill new wells and seriously ramp up production, said Christopher Knittel, an energy economist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The lack of investment has led to a decline in output in recent years.

    Companies have instead been directing profits to shareholders in the form of dividends or as share buybacks.”

    This is fueled (no pun intended, lol) by economic decisions made by the oil industry. It has nothing to do with federal policy. You want the federal government to take over the means of production? I don’t think so. Who wants to go down that slippery slope.

    As for inflation? It’s multifaceted.
    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/inflation-rising-economist-explains/
    “Driven by food and energy costs in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, inflation has been exacerbated by the Russian invasion of Ukraine.”

    It I remember correctly, both parties and a majority of the American people supported our efforts to help Ukraine fight Putin. As for goods? Supply and demand simply. If China locks down the supply chain, what are we supposed to do about that? Maybe if American companies hadn’t shipped most of their manufacturing overseas we’d be in much better shape. That’s unfortunately a long game of reaping what we sowed.

    What could have been beneficial at the federal level? Getting behind a campaign to push vaccine safety and citizen compliance. Although maybe the epidemic worked to our advantage to rid our country and the world of some of it’s people. The earth is over populated. Survival of the fittest playing out right before our eyes. This unprecedented pandemic (who’s alive to remember the Spanish flu pandemic?) was a gut punch to modern society world over. One doesn’t wave a wand and the repercussions suddenly right ship. We’re gonna struggle for awhile no matter who sits in the WH.
     
    #7458 purriwinkle, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  19. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    China has had their own problems because they've had some extended lockdowns this year due to Covid. We have many global issues, but as you know it always comes down to how people perceive things are being handled.

    When COVID started New York state was ground zero for the pandemic, but Cuomo came forward and gave briefings each day that even people across the country followed. He became the voice of the response to the virus, even though his state was the worst hit at that time. He gave the bad news with the good news unfiltered. It was great messaging.

    My problem now is with the messaging going on. It drives me crazy because the next two election cycles are critical. We can't play around. Our very system of government is at stake. We have that Greitens lunatic putting out ads with guns talking about hunting "RINOS."

    The student loan debt talk is a debacle. It's a select program that makes Dems look like the party of the elites. What about the families out there that didn't go to college? Paid off their debts, or have medical debt, or just debt trying to make ends meet?

    And there are many opportunities where traditional liberal programs could be pushed that would benefit people across the spectrum. Just one example is paid sick time. We don't have a federal law that requires employers to give people paid time off for illness. It's even more pertinent now with Covid and Long Covid. Make the Republicans fight against such a popular program as that.

    I'm just frustrated where all this is leading and I feel as if more can be done. It's not about solving all the problems but making people feel you're on their side and doing what you can to make a difference.
     
  20. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the message could be improved. Maybe the PR department needs new blood. However, Republicans would fight against anything that would possibly make the other side look good. Look what happened with Build Back Better. How could they bitch about improving infrastructure but they did and made it hard for those Republicans who broke ranks. They don’t mind biting off their own noses to spite their face…and have. IMO too many nuts and fascists have infiltrated the party at this point. Of course, getting Democrats to lock step like Republicans do most often is like herding cats. Always a couple of deadbeats to throw a monkey wrench in any attempts to help the American people.

    Politics in this country is f**ked up big time. Seriously though, what have Republicans proposed that make American citizens as a whole feel like they’re on their side? And whose side would that be? White, male, Christian? There are a lot of different groups of people in our country and what benefits the WMC may not be in the best interest of the rest, yet they’re pushing their agenda on everyone. I like your idea of a federal sick time bill but Manchin and/or Sinema would find a way to vote against it. As for student debt forgiveness, I haven’t formed an opinion cause I haven’t read over the particulars. I will though.

    Then there’s the people themselves. I shudder when I see how many believe the most unbelievable crap on social media and refuse to explore whether or not it’s credible….and then they pass it on to boot! Fools ripe for the picking. And even worse, those politicians who don’t actually believe what they’re pedaling but use it to stoke imaginary fears in their constituents!

    We don’t have many choices in our two party system. To my way of thinking, while things in Washington may not be perfect currently, the other party is so much worse it’s scary. Look at the recent (and yet to come) Supreme Court rulings, and if you’ve been watching the Jan. 6th committee meetings you know we were close to having a dictatorship. Thankfully there were good men and women who refused to go against their oath of office but it was close.

    We need to work hard at the state level to elect those who reflect our values, especially senators. (That Greitens nut case is a senate candidate). My values don’t unnecessarily restrict others, they support a strong separation of church and state, supports freedom of education, respect for our fellow citizens, improved public safety and strives to level the playing field for all. I’ll vote in my state accordingly. When we can get more representatives in Congress who will actually vote to change things that could be improved we’ll see some progress on the federal level. Don’t lose hope. We have to do it. We can do it. Then we need to look at term limits for Supreme Court judges.
     
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