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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    The thing is though that the earth really is overpopulated, which makes the forced birthers even more like some doomsday cult. Why can't they just form their own communes like some of the more extreme Mormon sects and leave the rest of us alone? I'd be all for that. They can intermarry, and make sure no embryo goes unborn. If a woman dies in childbirth, there will be plenty of other birthing vessels to take her place!

    In all seriousness though if the forced birthers were committed to providing for these children from birth to adulthood I'd at least give them a bit of credit for caring about kids. It still wouldn't be wrong to take away a woman's bodily autonomy, but at least we wouldn't have the hypocrisy we see today that goes like this:
    • Life has been created. You must give birth!
    • Child is born
    • Good luck!
    • Wait I need assistance. I can't afford this.
    • It's not the government's job to take care of your child. We can't afford this. You have to take responsibility for your own actions. You shouldn't have had sex. We will also take this opportunity to shame you for loose morals.
    • Children receive poor adult support due to parents working many jobs just to make ends meet. Some families are just single mother households, due to fathers abandoning them. Some kids become troubled and do poorly in school due to lack of supervision. Others might fall in with a bad element.
    • Too bad. Parents need to take responsibility. Besides a mother shouldn't be working anyway, she belongs home with the kids. And we're also making cuts to education too. None of this is the job of the government. Save up money and put your kid in a good private school.
    • But these jobs don't pay us a living wage. We can't provide for the kids as it is. Help!
    • Well if you had better jobs you wouldn't need to work two, or three, then you could be home to look after the kids. These entry level jobs aren't meant to be a career.
    • Well I would've gone to college but I had a child.
    • See answer # 3, you shouldn't have had sex. This is all your fault. This is America we bring ourselves up by the bootstraps and if you can't do that, then something is wrong with you. You are a failure.
    • Families continue to struggle. Some escape in unhealthy ways. There's addiction, divorce and other bad lifestyles. Families buy high calorie unhealthy food because it's less expensive. Health problems ensue.
    • We want to repeal the Obamacare and end Medicare because we don't believe it's our job to pay for your bad choices and habits. You should be eating better. And you would if you had a better job.

    I could go on and on here. There are deep rooted problems in our culture, which is a whole separate issue. But when you're taking away the rights of women, and the forced birth crowd is pushing this child, that they "care about so much" into this macabre cycle, it's truly evil.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there would be a public uproar, which is why no films are produced.

    WHY were those two indicted? For making the whole thing up? Nope, the AG indicted them for *using fake California driver's licenses* when they were setting up PP! And did you read in your link the quote from PP? They said they didn't respond to him *because he was offering to pay too much*. Get that part? They didn't say they didn't respond to him because they don't sell human fetal body parts, they didn't respond because they thought he was suspicious for being willing to overpay.

    Eventually, though, they DID agree to a meet and were willing to supply the parts. That's on video and as far as I know hasn't been disputed that this was a real video of a real PP exec. Why haven't they been prosecuted? You tell me.


    "both are charged with felonies for making and using fake California drivers licenses. They apparently used them to gain access to a Planned Parenthood meeting in Texas. Daleiden also faces a misdemeanor charge of illegally trying to buy fetal tissue, which his lawyers call very ironic since he was trying to accuse Planned Parenthood of illegally selling fetal tissue.

    SIEGEL: What else did the lawyers say about these charges?

    LUDDEN: Well, they say, you know, how can you accuse Daleiden of this without accusing Planned Parenthood of trying to sell the tissue he was trying to buy? Planned Parenthood says, you know, Daleiden, in this fake identity, was offering them $1,600 per specimen, which is just outrageously high, so high that they never responded to him."



    Yep, but once the person has been tortured, do you use the data, or not? So far, we have said, "no" to the use of Nazi data, but are saying "yes" to fetal research. Better not to do either, IMO.

    Yes, it does.

    Nah, turning people in to food would be energy-ineffiicient, I bet. Far better to harvest people's organs for any offense against the state and charge the recipient of said organs cold, hard, cash to receive them.

    Fair enough.

    Personally, I think we're in the calm before the storm right now, but that things will get worse in one way or another over the next decade. We can read about how all these increasingly awful things are happening in increasingly dysfunctional systems meant to deal with them and just wonder when the whole system will collapse or what the end point of it all will be. LOL! That reminds me, over the past few weeks in conversation I've had several *women* tell me they were fed up and just waiting for *the Revolution* at this point:eek:. And these aren't leftists, they're talking about a right-wing revolution. 20 years ago I wouldn't in my wildest dreams have thought I hear normal women talking like that... but...

    Hopefully, it's all just smoke, and the turmoil the country is going through is the same as the 1960's, for example. Hopefully.
     
    #7602 Morgotha, Aug 1, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    If you truly believe what you say, then I take it you are for allowing a birthing person to kill her recently-born child as well, right? I mean, the equation is the same, why should they or someone else have to take care of it just because it's born? The birthing person doesn't want to. Should you enslave her/him for 18 years out of your idea of morality? Based on what?

    And that's just the birthing person. The sperm donor can be saying from before the child is even born that they want no part of it and want an abortion, yet if the birthing person has the child, the sperm donor on the hook for child support. Why should THEY be enslaved to a child they don't want?

    "Evil" indeed.
     
  4. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Well, uh yeah…I would think if you’re trying to show the horrors of something you would want a public uproar to gain support for your cause but as I expected, there are no films because there’s nothing to film.


    First of all you’re not talking about the article I posted but a separate related article that you had to go to from the body of the first article for further information.

    The original article I posted talked about what the investigations by various states, sparked by the original allegation of PP selling fetal parts illegally, yielded. From the original article

    Georgia
    Republican Gov. Nathan Deal on July 16, 2015, asked the state's Departments of Community Health and Public Health to investigate whether Planned Parenthood was engaging in the "horrific practice" that the CMP's videos claimed to depict. On Aug. 13, the Department of Public Health reported that all five of the clinics had "proper procedures in place for burial or internment of [fetal] remains," as NPR member station WABE reported.

    Indiana
    In July 2015, Republican Gov. Mike Pence asked the state Department of Health to investigate the state's Planned Parenthood clinics, to see whether they were engaging in any sale of fetal tissue, local TV station WTHR reported. Weeks later, the department said it had "concluded there was no evidence of this type of activity" at three Planned Parenthood facilities in the state, as the Indianapolis Star reported.

    Michigan
    On July 16, 2015, Republican state Sen. Phil Pavlov asked the state to investigate "to determine whether or not any Michigan-based facilities have participated in the horrifying sale of babies' body parts," MLive reported. In October, the two departments handling the investigations issued a statement, saying that "there is no evidence to date that illegal practices are occurring," MLive reported.

    South Dakota
    In July 2015, Republican state Attorney General Marty Jackley instructed the state Health Department to investigate whether fetal tissue sales were occurring at Planned Parenthood, the AP reported. On Aug. 11, 2015, Jackley told the Associated Press that "there are no reports, complaints or inspection records that would demonstrate any evidence (of) illegal activity in South Dakota at this time."

    And on and on and on the same with every state that looked into it.

    Do you know why? That claim and the film were on par with Sidney Powell’s assertion that Hugo Chavez was responsible for rigging Dominion voting machines, a claim that even she later said no reasonable person would believe. Think about it. Why would anyone who appears to champion women’s rights try to denigrate a health organization that has done enormous good for many many women throughout the country. Now it’s my turn to say, you tell me.

    The fact that the activists were indicted for breaking the law in any capacity falls under the heading of irony, lol.

    That is certainly a medical ethics question that has been debated many times. It’s not exactly apples to apples however
    To compare what the Nazi’s did to living human beings, sometimes over and over again until death with using the remains of dividing cells or undeveloped fetuses, that have no chance of survival outside of the womb, is unfair, IMO. We have no evidence that these immature cells have any ability to mentally comprehend what is going on. Are these cells even sentient? Do they have a sense of self awareness? I would answer in the negative but that tissue is invaluable in developing treatments for those who are.

    So you didn’t like Soylent Green. Everyone’s a critic, LOL.

    Well, I hope they’re blowing smoke out their asses because I imagine the other side is ready to rumble as well. They might say, bring it on. Let’s keep our fingers crossed more reasonable minds and hearts prevail.

    *I think I’m watching something like this in season two of Picard, only who’s going to fix the distortion in our time space continum if mankind goes down the wrong road? Where’s Jean Luc when you need him? o_O
     
    #7604 purriwinkle, Aug 1, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
  5. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Please. Call up your local late-term abortion provider and ask for their permission to film them performing a 38+ week abortion for the purpose of making a video exposing the practice. I sort of doubt you'll be allowed to film the procedure. There IS something to film, but for that reason one isn't allowed to film it.




    Well your article said they were indicted, but didn't say why. Weren't you curious? I was. After seeing their video of the PP exec giving a price list for fetal organs, I wondered what they had done wrong. The link you provided showed me. They used fake ID's to gain her confidence. Big Felony there! I'm sure that if they went up and said they wanted to expose PP, PP would have been happy to cooperate, right? LOL, I wonder why the police aren't convicted for their undercover work. Surely, if they just went up to the drug lords they were trying to take down and explained they were the police and they required the drug dealers' cooperation, they'd comply, right?

    Yep, and I read them all. "Not enough evidence to prosecute" is the short answer. We *know* this is happening from the video they took. The States don't have the evidence to prosecute, which isn't surprising. The State couldn't find evidence to convict Al Capone, it's not surprising that a well-funded and lawyered up organization like PP can't be pinned down.

    The proof is there, though. PP execs discuss selling body parts and that they would *perform abortions differently* to extract tissue for them. There are 200 invoices from a tissue extraction company for parts. If you don't want to see, you won't. That's for sure. What more do you want?

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/daleiden-planned-parenthood-testimony-depositions

    You lost me with the Chavez thing. PP officials admitted under oath that the videos are real, and on the videos one exec is giving a price list for body parts and saying how they change their abortion procedures to make sure the needed parts are intact. When discussing costs of providing the parts, another exec joked she wanted a Lamborghini -- clearly they aren't giving them away.

    You want me to tell you why? It's simple. For money.

    Not Irony, politics.


    Meh, it was o.k. for its time. But it was pretty silly in having it be some big secret. There's no way you could keep that from getting out. IMO it would have been a much better dystopia if the people KNEW what soylent green was and ate it anyway. Oh, and I still remember (well, I think I do) them having the bodies going on a conveyor presumably into a grinder fully clothed, etc. WHY would you introduce all that polyester, etc., into your food supply? How much effort would it be to have your body supplier take their victims' clothes off first?

    The lefties are already out there burning and looting, so they probably won't mind adding direct violence to their repertoire. I hope it doesn't escalate as well. Imagine if instead of one Kyle Rittenhouse showing up at a protest the whole town shows up and starts shooting, with the looters shooting back. I don't think we'll make it back from something like that.

    I've got a bone to pick about Picard, too, believe it or not, LOL! When Galaxy Quest with Tim Allen came out (it's a really good satire of Star Trek, btw) they interviewed Stewart who in this really pompous way said something like "when the film came out after like 5 minutes I was on the phone with my lawyers... but a little while later I was laughing". He was SUCH a douche. I've never been able to see him the same since.

    OTOH, Shatner showed his usual humor saying that Tim Allen and his fellow actors appeared to be portraying someone and some show, but it was impossible to say what it was. LOL, Shatner really has improved with age.

    Shatner LOL#2: Someone posted to him, "o.k. Boomer" when that was popular, and he wrote back, "thanks! I didn't know I seemed so youthful", (him being from a pre-boomer generation).
     
    #7605 Morgotha, Aug 2, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A young woman was canvasing for Right to Life support in Kansas when she was beaten by a woman who apparently was in favor of abortion. In addition to physically assaulting her, she cursed the girl out and told her she hoped she got raped and hit by a car.

    Another case study of the peaceful nature of the left, and their willingness to engage in civil civic discourse. I hope the girl's injuries weren't severe.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/te...edly-punched-face-while-knocking-doors-kansas
     
  7. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Obviously any medical procedure such as a late term abortion is private between the doctor and the patient, although I’m surprised no radicalized anti abortion nurse or technician hasn’t secretly videotaped the whole thing. Of course it wouldn’t be hard to discover who did it and they would lose their job but anything for the cause, right? Thankfully third term abortions only comprise less than 1% of those performed.
    https://theconversation.com/less-th...rd-trimester-heres-why-people-get-them-182580


    That’s where you’re wrong. Most said NO EVIDENCE of that type of illegal activity found. Even that tool DeSantis couldn’t find evidence to prosecute the illegal selling of fetal body parts although you know he would have if he could have.

    Do you seriously expect me to accept anything FOX news has to say? IMO, FOX news has the journalistic integrity of the National Enquirer. Find another source if you want me to consider evidence to support your position.

    Tell me, who was charged and who was convicted?

    You would be such a bummer to watch a movie with, :rolleyes: lol

    Yeah, yeah and the right is looting and attacking police at the US Capitol trying to impede congressmen and women from certifying election results. Imagine if the Capitol police had had to shoot a few more protestors other than Ashli Babbitt?

    With states striking down their laws that prevented citizens from carrying concealed weapons unless they had cause, who knows what could happen if one side fired on the other and they returned it. I agree, it would NOT be good.


    Well, Stewart is English, lol, but he ended up laughing at the end to his credit. Regardless, I rather find myself enjoying Picard, which I’m binging now. Galaxy Quest is great by the way, and one of our favorites.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A nurse in an abortion center assists in abortions all day long every day, and one would have to be pretty hard core about it to work in a late term abortion center. I doubt they just take nurses off the street without previous experience working in an abortion clinic, and it's hard for me to imagine a pro-life person getting past their background checks, etc., to film the video.

    "No evidence" means no smoking gun that would allow them to move forward with prosecution. Watch the actual videos themselves. It's kind of hard to say that PP isn't selling fetal parts when a PP exec is discussing the charges for fetal parts!


    LOL, I don't wreck the movie at the time, but like to reflect on them later, especially for movies felt to be "significant". And if nothing else, you'd get popcorn!


    Yeah, those Brits. What are you going to do?o_O:rolleyes::D
     
  9. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure clinics or a hospital that offers abortion services at any stage, (I couldn’t find one that only offers late term abortions, maybe you can), want to hire experienced medical staff. My husband and I have worked in health care our entire careers and we have NEVER been asked our party affiliation or political views when interviewing for a job. Background checks for criminal convictions? Unless they were convicted of fire bombing an abortion facility, what would show up? Yes? In that case their license to practice would most likely be revoked. When you renew the registration on your license they do have that question about whether you have been convicted of any crimes.

    What is closer to reality, I imagine, is that a pro life nurse would not want to apply for or work for facilities or doctors performing abortions, hence not around to secretly record anything.



    No Evidence is NOT code for no smoking gun. No evidence means just that, that the “plaintiffs” could not meet the burden of proof, despite everything being gone over with a fine tooth comb in this case.
    A smoking gun would be “a piece of incontrovertible incriminating evidence”. The video you describe apparently didn’t cut the mustard or move the needle in any criminal complaint.

    Well….ok…as long as there’s popcorn..;)
     
    #7609 purriwinkle, Aug 3, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
  10. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there's no late term abortion clinic out there. Also not many of them occur. There are 79.3% that occur within 9 weeks, and a total of 92.7% that happen within 13 weeks. So I would think that most of those late terms ones are due to the health of the mother being at stake, or as the right wing would consider them, "birthing vessels."

    People have a tendency to focus on the extremes. It's like saying Casey Anthony got away with murder, so we'll just change our criminal justice system to a lower bar for guilt.

    Nothing is perfect, but most women are going to get abortions early, unless there are medical or psychological issues in play.
     
  11. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a clinic to my knowledge that ONLY performs late term abortions, however, very few clinics in general DO perform late term abortions. No one ever said anything about party affiliations, etc., you came up with that. The point is that I strongly doubt that anyone is going to hire a nurse to work in a clinic that DOES provide late term abortions without them having previous experience as an abortion nurse somewhere else, and if she has previous experience working full time as an abortion nurse, she's probably not rabidly pro-Life. Eh, might not be true. Maybe they'd hire some new graduate nurse with no experience in the field -- but I doubt it.

    On evidence, sure it is. Do you think Al Capone was innocent of everything but tax evasion? Do you think Epstein *really* killed himself? There was "no evidence" he was murdered, but the guards that were supposed to patrol his cell, didn't, the roomate that was supposed to be in the cell with him was transferred out that day, the cameras in front of his cell stopped working, and the guards that were supposed to be monitoring him fell asleep... a lot of coincidences to happen at one time, IMO, but that's what "no evidence" means in a high profile case.
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    No one said there was a clinic where ONLY late term abortions occur, when someone uses the term "late term abortion clinic" they mean an abortion clinic that ALSO performs late term abortions.

    Yeah, the percentage of abortions that are late term are low, but remember that when you're talking about 1,000,000 abortions per year, one percent of that is still 10,000 babies a year. That's significant, especially when you compare that to the fact that only about 7000 people in total from birth to age 19 die every year from accidental causes, it's a big number.

    LOL! No, the Left is the one who came up with the birthing persons/vessels b.s. Nice try, though.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    From the "Yes, I want to go to jail" department: A woman who works as a security guard for the Lollipalooza music festival called in mass shooting threat saying 150 people were being targeted, and when her supervisor asked for proof she made up a facebook page under the name "Ben Scott" with the threat and sent her supervisor a screenshot of it. The supervisor immediately called the police and FBI as one would expect them to, and they tracked the facebook page back to her, at which time she confessed and was arrested.

    WHY did she do such a thing? She said she wanted to go home early!?o_Oo_Oo_O

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/lollapal...g-false-mass-shooting-threat-leave-work-early
     
    #7613 Morgotha, Aug 4, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    :eek: Brittney Griner was just sentenced by the Russian court to spend *9 years* in jail for bringing her pot cartridges in to their country. Seems like a lot, but OTOH, who knows how much of that she'll end up serving? There's probably some "deal" being worked out somewhere behind the scenes.

    In any event, while playing in the WNBA she refused to be on the floor while our National Anthem was played, and seemed to have a pretty anti-US pov. I suppose that if she actually does have to serve her time in Russia it will give her time to reflect on how rotten our country and its freedoms really are in comparison.

    "
    WNBA star Brittney Griner was sentenced to nine years in prison after she was found guilty of drug possession and drug smuggling by a Russian judge on Thursday.

    She was also fined 1 million rubles."

    https://www.foxnews.com/sports/brit...sian-court-hands-down-verdict-wnba-stars-case
     
  15. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    What else were you implying when you said, and I quote:

    “it's hard for me to imagine a pro-life person getting past their background checks, etc., to film the video.” Mo

    Why would a person with a pro-life view have a different background check that someone who was pro-choice if neither had broken any laws? One doesn’t exactly wear a badge indicating where they stand on the political spectrum.

    We both agree that experienced medical personnel are no doubt hired to work in clinics providing abortion, so I’m assuming that you agree with me that a person who doesn’t approve of abortions wouldn’t necessarily seek a job helping to perform them. Right?

    I’m just saying that this video you’re touting hasn’t been the “smoking gun” you seem to think it is. Hasn’t been a factor at all evidently except for conspiracy theorists.
     
  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Checking their backgroundo_O. For example, where did they come from? Was your last job working in an abortion clinic? Yes. You're hired. Your last job was working for "Operation Rescue"? Sorry, you're not hired. Like I said, I don't think an abortionist would hire a nurse straight out of school or from some other field to assist in the most grisly of abortions of fully formed babies. They would only want to hire someone with a proven iron stomach.

    NO one applying for a nursing position would make it through the front door with a criminal record seen on an official background check.

    Right, people who don't approve of abortions won't take a job where they're expected to perform them, so they won't be there to film a video of them being performed.

    Eh. I've watched the videos, I don't believe you have. I guess it's kind of like with George Floyd, the seeing is believing.
     
  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Let me know if they’re they’re going to be shown on the NBC, ABC or CBS nightly news and I guess I’ll see them then.

    *I believe my understanding of “background check” involved past criminal history, sex offender registry list, SSN verification, credit history and motor vehicle checks, etc., well beyond the listed past employers on one’s resume. I guess I’ve never worked for any organization, company or in any facility that required more than a resume, interview and currently registered license. Is that a thing now? My background has always been working with smaller teams in private practice. I thought you were going way over board but thinking about it, I imagine some places require extra security when it comes to staffing. The times they are a-changin’
     
    #7617 purriwinkle, Aug 4, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  18. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    • Like Like x 1
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  20. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but what I want to know is upon being restored, did they then try to eat the scientists? Lolo_O
     

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