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Stupidest Survivors So Far

Discussion in 'Episode 208 - Grotesque' started by Terminator, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Zombiekaaner

    Zombiekaaner Member

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    I agree with most of what you say.... Except for the characterization of stand. He isn't a "Wealthy Ruthless Man", but in fact "a ghetto thug from the 4th ward of New Orleans". Remember - he was working a bar as a gay prostitute, and he rolled his john for his credit cards. In this particular case the john just happened to be Thomas Abigail, and with his cartel henchman Louis along for enforcement, he became "Obligated". That in and of itself is an interesting character - the man who is good at creating an illusion. Making himself someone he isn't. In that extent - Strand has a lot in common with The Governor aka Phillip Blake aka Brian Herriot. But Strand has been lying since the day he was introduced... "My house, my boat, etc...." No Victor, your house is in New Orleans, the govt owns it, and its now covered in toxic molded being used by homeless squatters and junkies to smoke rock. Thomas, the man whose punk you are owns a house, and he owns YOU too. Its an important distinction - in that Victor Strand isn't self made. He didnt get where he is by his own abilities or talents. If Thomas wasn't a lecherous pervert who wanted to essentially sexually enslave someone and make him his "obligated" property, he could have just as well told Louis to give him "a mexican necktie" and left his body in the hotel room. So like the governor - Stand "fell into" leadership by circumstance, not by being ruthless or even very smart. (One could convincingly argue that robbing a rich gangster with a hacienda, a drug cartel, and a coven of Santa Muerte witches at his disposal wasn't the wisest choice. Some conventioneer from Idaho would have been less lucrative but much less likely to arrive at your door with Louis Flores in tow)

    Incidentally - I think some of the writing is excellent BUT that they don't go far enough to explain so that people outside of the Gulf Coast don't get it. For example I am from Houston so I was familiar with the places in New Orleans that were revealed in Strand's backstory. I'm familiar with the Latin American gangs, the various civil wars that have happened in Central America and who the players were. As soon as I saw the owl medallion I instantly recognized that Louis was a Santa Muerte practitioner, and upon seeing the hacienda recognized Cecelia as a Santa Muerte witch. HOWEVER, I would say that most people wouldn't because most of America doesn't have Santa Muerte talismans, candles, and statues of "the white lady" for sale at their local flea market or dollar store. I think the writers assume too much local or cultural knowledge on the part of the viewer, or they are going too far in hiding "easter eggs". The writers of TWD are "cutesy" in doing this too - for example the Grady Memorial arc being entitled "Slabtown" (Slabtown was a dangerous crime ridden red light district that used to stand where Grady Memorial hospital is) or "Terminus" (The end of the line, the 0 mile marker on all the railroads that converged in 1842 to become Atlanta in 1847.)

    So I don't think so much that they have "lazy writing" - because some of their stuff is really good and a fantastic adaptation to include - but I think they need to flesh it out more for those not familiar with the details of things like "Where the gay tourist areas of NOLA are, where the ghettos of NOLA are, who was who in the Salvadoran civil war, what is Santa Muerte, etc.

    I mean for example - Daniel Salazar was in the Salvadoran Army, NOT the communist rebels. As a result he would have been trained to torture and kill by AMERICAN military advisors and CIA paramilitary operators. The Salvadoran military death squads were trained and supported by the School of the Americas at Fort Benning. He thus KNOWS what the US military, and their proxies, are capable of doing to a civilian population. Half the time he was cutting on somebody there were probably two American Green Berets and a CIA guy standing there watching and making a list of who needs to disappear tonight... Being armed with this knowledge puts a whole different spin on his distrust of the military, and his willingness to torture Andy the soldier. Knowing what I do about SOTA and the US role in the Salvadoran civil war, I saw that scene - as well as Daniel leading the walkers to the military camp - as a "you made me this way and now your monster has turned on you" statement.
     
    #21 Zombiekaaner, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  2. Pogo the Possum

    Pogo the Possum Active Member

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    The answer is that there are dumb people everywhere. Plus, this is only like a month into the timeline after wildfire, and people are still in a state of disbelief and unaccustomed as to how to deal with much of it.

    Look how deluded the crew at Grady Memorial were operating. They were pretty stupid, and that was far along into the ZA.
     
  3. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    This is a really good point. Also, as "seasoned vets" :p:p when it comes to all things ZA......we tend to forget that these guys are babies in FTWD and judge them like they are way further experienced than they actually are.

    I know I basically just said what you said so let me just say....I concur. lol
     
  4. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Thank you for the detailed clarifications. If you see from one of my earlier posts, I said there were elements that I was really enjoying in S2 and got excited about it.

    The fact that this stuff is not fleshed out(reading your descriptions obviously makes it more interesting)is the lazy writing most people are talking about. The other bits of lazy writing are just poor unrealistic action sequences, plot set ups and then bland dialogue - which does not lend itself well to attempting more complex themes that people aren't familiar with.

    You can't cover everything in hour episodes. The TWD cutesy bits are very easy to follow.
     
  5. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Well this is definitely true. No TV writers could ever encapsulate just how dumb most people are and act in times of crisis. In fact, accurately writing that in with realism is what made some TWD so compelling to me.

    Grady Memorial had a mini economy, food/power/weapons and knew how to deal with the undead. They were a flawed set up, but not as bad as some others we've seen in both shows.
     
  6. Balthazars

    Balthazars Member

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    Agreed
     

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