Battle Royale Forums

Welcome to Battle Royale Forums. Join us today and become part of the growing group of survivors.

[Suggestion] A Reasonable Way to Deal With KoS

Discussion in 'Z1: Battle Royale' started by Dealman, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. shugoh

    shugoh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hahaha this is so ironic that it is sad, try to use your brain before you compose a reply. Thanks :)
    "Killing before they kill you" IS THE DEFINITION OF KOS. So how does that solve the issue, that you KOS instead of being KOSed? Think about that for a moment.

    There are simple solutions to KOS, but people just dont see it.
     
  2. Braum

    Braum New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a very well thought out post! I agree for the most part. Wish this could be implemented somehow.
     
  3. Dealman

    Dealman New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry for my absence from this thread, been occupied with studies. Missed quite a few replies, haha.

    If you had actually played Breaking Point, you'd realize that your post isn't true. Yes, Hunters do get rewarded for killing anyone on sight - but they also have some of the less interesting perks and actually, I'd say Hunters aren't the most common class. At least not from my experience.

    Ranger or Outlaw are probably the ones I've seen the most.

    There is stuff you can do about it, no you obviously can't come up with a concrete solution to deal with it - but what Breaking Point offers is a damn good way of REDUCING it.

    Yes people will "troll" or "grief" by becoming traitors, but all they do is 'ruin' their class by getting a negative amount of points, resulting in if they would ever want to play that class seriously, it would take them forever to get back up to positive as they'll be constantly marked as a traitor.

    I'm simply putting out a suggestion I think it would be worthwhile for the developers to look into, an opinion if you will. I am by no means telling the devs to add this "or else" so please stop interpreting it as such.

    Either people like the idea or they hate it, I understand that. Which is also why, like I already said before - this feature would be on some servers, not all.

    Sure would be bliss if people actually read threads thoroughly before entering elitist mode.
     
  4. Fonsworth

    Fonsworth Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0

    You're Right, I havn't played Breaking point and made that all up. I totally made a good guess that they have classes and how they work. I'm a good guesser, eh?

    If someone is trolling, obviously they don't care about that class, and it's only on that server anyway.

    I guess I'm also an elitist because I have no problems with people KOSing and there is nothing you can do about it anyway... totally make me an elitist. Sounds like you're a bit mad over there. Game mechanics allow for different play styles at once. It's a sandbox. If anything, you're the elitist for thinking people should play the way you want and not KOS or troll people.
     
    #24 Fonsworth, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  5. Fonsworth

    Fonsworth Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did use my brain.

    Here is how I used my brain:

    Oh, there is a guy over there that I don't know and I am on a hostile PVP server.
    Brain, should we go talk to him or try and avoid him?
    Brain says we should try to avoid him
    Well Brain, hate to tell you but he is coming this way and it doesn't seem that we can avoid him.. he also seems to be armed.
    Brain says we should kill him before he kills us..
    Good thinking brain, Self preservation!!

    Yes, that is a KOS situation that happens. It's part of the game. I'm sorry you don't like it but you don't have to. If you don't like the above situation, don't play on a PVP server and if you do don't come crying on the froums like a 13 year old girl when some baddie shoots you. Like I said, there are 2 ways to deal with KOS... either be the one to do the KOS first, or go to a PVE server. I'm sorry you don't understand that very simple concept.

    It's pretty obvious that part of the community thinks it's okay to kill anyone at anytime for any reason on PVP servers and some people think you should be punished for non-consensual PVP on a PVP server... The latter are what we in the PVP community call carebears and you all are a cancer to PVP servers.

    Have you ever played EVE? If you did I bet you would be one of the idiots crying all over the forums because some baddie ganked their mining barge..
     
    #25 Fonsworth, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  6. shugoh

    shugoh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    To me, all that above situation sounded like was that you sir, are bad at sneaking and being discreet. :) I dont usually get seen before I see people, but its fun to be able to have social interactions once in a while without being shot at sight. But maybe you dont understand intellectual stuff like that, calling others little girls for no reason.

    Instead of giving up saying "lol you cant do anything about KOS", which you obviously can, listen to others people advices to change this game to the better(or at least leave people THE **** alone when they try to do so). "Go play on PVE" just doesnt cut it, if a player wants to be able to fight other people, but on the other hand enjoys some(however small that may be) sophisticated and realistic social interactions.
     
    #26 shugoh, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  7. Dealman

    Dealman New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Fonsworth:
    What you're missing though is that this would still encourage PvP but also teamwork(OH NO THE TRAGEDY) between players of the same or allied factions.

    All you're saying is either play PvP or PvE - why are you so against suggestions?

    I do think having a PvP aspect is vital for zombie survival, obviously. But there should be friendly interactions as well.

    You keep interpreting us like if we want absolutely no means of PvP whatsoever.

    It's simply my opinion that the amount of KoS is too much, especially since you currently can't tell if a player is armed or not - people will not take any risks, thus encouraging even more KoS(Yes, I know it's an Alpha).

    Now care to elaborate? Why are you so massively against this suggestion? What is it that bothers you about it? Why do you think it would be bad for the game?
     
  8. shugoh

    shugoh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Simply. This ^
     
  9. Fonsworth

    Fonsworth Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0

    If I had a dollar for every "fix KOS", "fix PK", "fix what I don't like and make other people play how I want them" thread I had been in through EVE, DayZ, now H1Z1, I would not have to go to work ever again.

    If it was a fixable problem it would have a solution already. You can't fix the fact that people go to a PvP server to shoot people. Not everyone goes on the server with the mentality of "I am going to stay alive for forever and build a big base and get all the lewtz"

    People actually do go on PvP servers ONLY TO PVP AND NOTHING ELSE.

    As long as this exists, you cannot fix KOSing without punishing people who purely want to pvp on a pvp server. Which defeats the entire purpose.

    When I play games like this, and I encounter someone face to face, I always try to shoot first because I KNOW he is about to attack me. 100% of the time, guaranteed. However, there are a number of times that I run into someone that is maybe around the corner or in the next room and we make verbal contact. I straight up tell them "I'm friendly if you are. Leave and I won't kill you". Completely reasonable. Told them I meant them no harm but if they don't leave I will kill them out of self preservation. It's that simple, I just don't understand why people think you should be forced into talking it out with people on a PvP server... no you shoot it out.. that is the ONLY reason to be on a PvP server.. to PvP, which means FIGHT
     
    #29 Fonsworth, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  10. Fonsworth

    Fonsworth Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0

    I don't think it's bad for other games, but H1z1 is not designed for that. It's designed for people to survive solo, or team up IF THEY WANT. Having classes forces people to team up.

    It reminds me of wasteland for ArmA. There are opfor, blufor and indy teams. The indy teams can do whatever they want, but, since you're on a team you can still see each other's tags when you're close and people abuse it.

    If people want to work together (for the record I play this game with friends, when they are on at the same time as me, and we KOS anyone who presents themselves as hostile) we need a voluntary grouping system, not a forced-into class system. Marking people as friendly like in DayZ Mod Epoch, something like that.

    I simply said I don't think the class system would work here because it doesn't REALLY work well in other games, to which other people started calling me out as an idiot so I responded in kind.

    Grouping system that has some sort of friend indicator is your best bet in games like this. It would allow you to make friends in the game without forcing other people to. Your friends could have some sort of indicator in-game, maybe a green dot or something over their heads?

    What really 'grinds my gears' though are people who QQ about being shot on sight in a pvp server. It makes no difference if you feel like its morally right or wrong, the right or wrong way to play the game. What matters is that it is allowed so people should expect it and not cry about it. I don't mean to come across as an @$$, but every time I read a "fix KOS" thread I imagine some neckbeard in his mom's basement who just got all kinds of "3p1c lewtz" only to get killed running down the middle of the damn street in Pleasant Valley and got mad about it and decided to make the one millionth thread in the history of forums venting about being bad at playing on a pvp server. In all honesty, if people any good at surviving in a survival game, they would not get KOS'd because you would not be out in the open where people can see you.
     
    #30 Fonsworth, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  11. shugoh

    shugoh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all I am sorry to hear about your badly paid job. I sincerely hope you find something that pays better in the future.

    You sir, are alot more narrow minded than i originally thought. There is no reasoning with you, since you have your twisted image of what "PVP is all about". PVP is the ABILITY to engage fights versus other players, it does not make it a REQUIREMENT.

    "Forced into talking it out", man you are so narrow minded its scary. You do know that the earth is not flat, right?

    I am a 100% sure that KOS is fixable to some extent. But of course it will ALWAYS be there, to some extent, but nobody denied that. We just said that a 100% KOS chance is too much, and that is where this game is currently at.

    Murdering the murder does not solve anything in this case, since you just take over the murderers role as a murderer. Get a grip :rolleyes:
     
  12. Dealman

    Dealman New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...

    H1Z1 and Breaking Point are very similar, the difference currently is that H1Z1 allows you to build "modular" bases á la Epoch style. Where as Breaking Point only allows you to take over houses as safe havens.

    Other than that, they are very similar. Zombies, weapons, survival, player interaction. If you were to take away the factions from Breaking Point - you'd basically have H1Z1 but on a different engine.

    Having factions does NOT under any circumstance FORCE people to team up. If you were to meet an ally and they want to team up with you, you can always say that you prefer to roam around by yourself - I've done this a lot, and usually allied players are very helpful in that we help each other with food/water and medication. After all, we are awarded for doing so as well.

    The comparison you made with Wasteland makes absolutely no sense. Under no circumstance is it in any way similar other than that there are multiple factions. You do not always have faction tags above friendly or allied players unless you are grouped.

    Also, you'd be a fool not to shoot someone marked as a traitor.

    I'm not 'crying' about Kill on Sight, just because someone has a different opinion than you and posts a suggestion on how it could be improved(again in their opinion, not yours) does that mean they are 'crying'?

    I'm not saying get rid of PvP, I'm not saying FIX KoS, I'm not saying anything of what you seem to think I am saying.
     
  13. Fonsworth

    Fonsworth Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    By putting someone in a faction, or making them pick one, you have just put them on a team. No, you don't have to work together, but they are on the same team which usually brings along some sort of map/UI indicators.

    In wasteland, whether you are grouped or not, if someone is in your faction you absolutely DO see a very large, colored dot over their head once you get within 1km or so, even if you are on independent. I think you can chose to additionally group up past that so you have your own chat but I don't remember exactly, never really grouped up with people who I didn't know.

    This thread is titled as a way to deal with KOS, but you're not talking about trying to fix KOS? If we were to have "calsses" in h1z1, I think they should have less to do with being a "reasonable solution to KOS" and more of a way to progress your character through meaningful interaction with others.. which, for a bandit, would be KOSing. Which, obviosuly encourages MORE KOS, so would not a "solution" as you suggested. I just don't think that H1Z1 is designed for that, I don't feel liek they had that in mind when making the game into the game it is. Having progressive classes doesn't feel like the Zombie apocalypse to me. It feels like an MMORPG at that point.

    I would fully support a 100% voluntary grouping system that would allow your friends to have a UI indicator to see that they are your friend, but that's about it.

    If I made a thread on a forum I would not only expect but want and welcome people who had a varied point of view and also for people pick my point of view apart and tell me why they think it won't work or why they think it would.
     
    #33 Fonsworth, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  14. Dealman

    Dealman New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, they'd be in the same faction or a faction allied with another. They do not have to work together, they don't have to trust one another - they can attack each other if they want. All they do is lose points, and thusly run the risk of losing their perks. This is what discourages people from killing people on sight, but some people will still become a traitor just to get that one gun or backpack - which is perfectly fine, that's the kind of interaction I personally like to see. If you ask me, it adds a realistic atmosphere to a zombie apocalypse. People working together, but some can and will stab you in the back.

    Yeah, but that's Wasteland buddy. I'm talking about Breaking Point and not Wasteland. Those are vastly different. Breaking Point does not have any sort of UI to indicate whether a player is friendly or not - literally the only way to tell is via their clothing, and if they're a traitor they won't be wearing a hat/cap(this is but the best you can do in such a limited environment, obviously).

    I can agree on your point that the title might seem misleading, I apologize for that. But my intention here isn't to "fix" KoS as I said, there is no concrete way to fix KoS but still maintain a PvP environment. The intention with this suggestion is solely to reduce the amount of KoS and also introduce interesting social interaction.

    The progressive factions are to reward players who are loyal to their factions with rewards, rewards whom will aid in your survival or be beneficial to your faction in general. Ranger Level 3 for example spawns with a medic backpack which allows him to perform very basic surgery(to be able to stop more severe injuries, does not heal the player AFAIK). This is a pretty significant perk, and it's rewarding because Ranger is a hard faction to play as since you're allied with so many others.

    I'm not against people providing their thoughts about my suggestion, after all, positive and negative feedback are both required in order to improve upon something. Now what I'm not okay with, is when people jump in and are complete douches with nothing good to say. "Go play PvE instead" is not constructive feedback in any way.
     
    #34 Dealman, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  15. Beck H1Z1

    Beck H1Z1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Alright, after catching up with this thread I think I can say a thing or two and know what I'm talking about.
    [MENTION=4741]Fonsworth[/MENTION] We get it. The server says "PvP" so you think that the server is designed specifically for PvP, or that the players on that server are expected to PvP. This is simply not true. This is a SANDBOX survival game meaning, if I want to PvP I will, if I don't want to PvP I won't. PvP servers allow me to have that choice, but PvE servers on the other hand don't. What they are suggesting is a way to limit KOS, not remove it. Unfortunately, I don't think you get what they are suggesting.

    Imagine you are at a restaurant and you order a burger with fries, then the waiter comes over and shoves the burger down your throat until you're choking on it and then pisses on your fries while saying "Maybe you should have just ordered the fries?!".
     
    #35 Beck H1Z1, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2015
  16. Wosniac

    Wosniac New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm..interesting ideas indeed.

    My personal stance on KOS though(which is why i only play on PvE servers so far), is:

    remember that the game is still very much in alpha/early access, so IMO, its way to early to judge how bad the KOS will be once the game is fully developed.

    Once more zombies(hordes?) and enviromental(snow7cold etc) is added, you might see more and more people band togheter to "fight" these things.

    Personally, i am sticking to PvE servers until the game is more "fleshed out", will definitly start characters on PvP servers closer to full release though; the human element in games like this is an extra thrill.

    I guess only time will tell how KOS mentality will be down the road.
     
  17. Mannina86

    Mannina86 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really like that idea
     
  18. cortdemico

    cortdemico New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow, democrats and republicans...the sh!t never ends with you guys.
    with the exception of three encounters, i've experienced nothing but KOS in H1Z1. so far i don't mind it as much and all. i feel like i learned a bit more about the game mechanics when the failures occur. we tend not to repeat mistakes. but i must say that not everybody playing on PVP wants to KOS (i haven't and won't (unless i witness it)), but i guarantee you that the unswayed to either side upon entry will most definitely become a little bandit before too long. hence the non-KOS-ers will soon be outnumbered.
    i believe that someone who SAYS that joining a server that is PVP means that you MUST KOS is missing something. if not the point, then some screws. the devs of this game DO want PVP and such, but have stated that they have tried to make their game in such a way as to motivate players to think about such actions as a dangerous prospect due to the nature of the environment and hoped player cooperation would be an organic thing.
    the bearer of this thread is just offering up a rule-set from a game he sees as something that might help the extreme KOS-ing (i'm not fond of it, sounds like WOW. i think more tweaking of the environment itself could do the trick, but more on that later.) this is not some outrageous notion that he is putting forth. i mentioned the devs themselves trying to work out a solution to you lunatics, but PVE aside (boring), there is also the RPG community that might like this hammered out in some way.
    i myself don't want to play PVE servers, but i do like the idea of trying to reign in some of you deaf/mute, motorcycle helmet clad, team-speaking, russian death squads, who are only armed to the teeth because they are shooting all comers, including me who had his hands up (coulda robbed me for those 11 bullets, but that takes skill). that's not PVP. that's Battle Royale. and like battle royale, why even have the zombies?
    alternate solution number 34,983,321: make zombies HELLA more aggressive during the day (way more than they are now). say the zombies "warm-up" during the day like a reptile. just when visibility for you KOS-ers would be useful, you would be more worried about the attention that would draw (just as developers had intended), and nite time zombies would chill out a bit and give all some KOS time, but also afford people some cover of darkness to get away (or sneak up).
    other ideas i've liked:
    -making player zombies really nasty MFers. might not curb KOS but it sure would be fun.
    -damaging items in location specific inventory like day Z.
    -add vocal call outs to help with microphone lacking players. FRIENDLY! NEED HELP! PISS OFF! DROP YO SH!T! (even if the type chat is fixed it's still going to be kinda slow and not as obvious/noticible)
    -include a sure fire system for players to be sure you dropped all inventory, or provide a search function, so that a person doesn't feel like he might miss loot if they let you live.
    -classes like dead frontier (these were basically what you were before the apocalypse): healers make meds/military get some stat perks/engineers could repair items/food sevrice make better foodstuffs/etc... make players need other players (don't think it would help with organized KOS-ers (and that's quite alright), but Yollo Rodriguez might need to look for a buddy or four.
    -buddy system of some nature to where two random in world characters could meet up and not kill each other by accident whilst trying to defend themselves against a world of cloned rabid KOS-ers. maybe something a player could craft and paint to identify a new friend (find spray paint in world-you chose the color of paint-paint a hat/flag and give to new acquaintance; cover each other in mud; feather in cap; something. anything.)

    i could go on (obviously), but it's now 5:00AM, so throw your best "quit yer cyin" my way and try to use a little syntax and spell check.

    PSS (not 5AM anymore) couple more mentions from playing the "hardcore" version of H1Z1. devs had it right when they mentioned a system for character improvement during character life. even the slowest of snail crawls toward a faster or stronger or etc. character will make people not put themselves in sketchy situations just to psycho KOS a dude for nonsense. don't have to be much, put a cap on it if need be. recipe wipes were also a nuisance to have to go through over and over with starvation deaths and server wipes, this is also something that would help. and gosh darn it! it's a zombie game, more zombies. and more dangerous zombies. even random "boss" zombies?!?! hogger anyone??!? need to make players more valuable alive from self-preservation or altruism.
     
    #38 cortdemico, Feb 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2015

Share This Page