I saw a bumper sticker once in WPB Florida that read

"Cant Nobody Do You Like Jesus".

No Lie!

I think that really says it all?

They must DIE!!!

 

Ummmmm hmmmmmmmm who to side with who to side with????????????

It so hard to choose..................................................



@tink

 

Oh, it's Jesus baby. Jesus all the way.

 

I understand Jesus' mindset. Especially when you assume you will eventually win. At some point you need to find some form of who you are. I would think it would be challenging to come back from straight up gunning down people who are surrendering. Or killing them before they have had the chance to surrender.

But, I also see Tara's point. These people chose to be saviors. If they are high enough on the food chain to be trusted with weapons, they made the decision to be a savior. The workers in the sanctuary, with no weapons and basically slaves. They are a different story. But those with guns, they chose to live by the sword, so to speak.

In this case I would error on the side of caution and kill everybody.

 

Hmm, I think it's too grey to really take one side.

Like, with the guy who tricked Jesus, Tara was right the whole time. He was fishy, and she was right to not believe him and want him taken out right away.

But later on, Jesus was right. They had the upper hand and they didn't need to kill them, they could just surrender. And they did. It's all circumstance.

But Tara is bae so I vote 4 her

 

Team Fonderloons!!

This is wartime and in this circumstance im with team Tara. You have to be careful not to lose your humanity but given the history of the saviors, you have to eliminate them. Each one you leave alive puts your own people at risk. They dont have jails or military prisons, no organized way to take in prisoners of war en masse.

If GTMO was at their disposal, I would side with Jesus. Just minus the torture. But they don't have a reliable way to house all these POWs so too big a risk to your own. To Judith, Carl, all the people back at the safe zones.

Like others have said, these people chose to take up guns and support a terrorist way of life. And they chose to now take up more guns and defend that way of life to the death. So....

To the death.

 

There was one scene showing a person in danger of losing their humanity. Rick. When he chose to set the electrocuted walker free to rip apart the injured savior. Instead of just killing him outright. THAT is how we start to lose our humanity and become the monster we are fighting. When killing isn't enough. When you also arrange it so the death is a torturous one. That's what I would worry about. Not killing the ones who temporarily surrender.

 

Yes. They are forced to live in the circumstances of this world. Those people were prepared to kill before being surrounded. And they will again if given the opportunity. Negan's group outnumbers the militia, maybe 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 or more. They just can't practically keep taking prisoners en masse. Not when you are so far outnumbered with no organized way to keep them detained.

In our world there would be places to detain them properly so they aren't a threat. In theirs, there isn't.

If I was in a war with Negan's group, outnumbering me, and I was fighting for my freedom from their rule, which included bashing people's brains in when they aren't pleased with something, and we surrounded some of them and forced them to put down their guns...i'd kill them all and move on to the next group I came across.

 

In addition to the impracticality of providing food and secured living space for the prisoners, dealing with rebellions is also a high concern.

Let's say, half of the prisoners are truly remorseful but half are just pretending and waiting for any chance to turn against the Rick's team. And say, there are about 100 prisoners in total after the war. So, you are expecting about 50 to lay low and prepare to rise up against you. This number is not like one or two but fifty. That is a large number to deal with.

Perhaps we will find out in the next episode. The preview seems to show the whole group is marching on a highway when a small horde comes up from the side and causes chaos. We will see how many of the prisoners will take the chance to rebel.
And maybe the show will solve the problem of holding prisoners long term by having them all killed either by the horde and/or by Tara's group right on the highway.

Maybe a compromised solution is to let the saviours know they will not be taken as prisoners right from the beginning. Say, right when a gun fight starts, Rick's team yells out something like ''surrender now or you will not be taken as prisoner even when you surrender later'' and let the saviours have a final chance to surrender. Surrender before a gun fight is a much better indication.

 

Interesting point here and I think Rick actually did already say this exact thing?
He told them at the Sanctuary to surrender right then or there would be no other chance,maybe for just this reason?

Anyway I nam assuming that these jerks all helped in some way the Murderm of Glenn and Abe among many others and they all MUST DIE!

The Sooner the Better too!

Better to ask Jesus for forgiveness as they say.

 

TEAM TARA! She's doing what has to be done. Jesus is an idealist in zombieworld! Wait....Jesus just became the moral compass of the show... HES DEAD!!!! hahaha TARA TARA TARA!

 

Team Jesus.

It's definitely a grey area and while I appreciate the short term logic of killing them all and minimizing risk I have to say that I believe the downward slope of losing your humanity DOES begin with slaughtering unarmed people who surrender.

Honestly, it only takes one person with one shot to ruin our protagonists plans, but that's just going to have to be the risk they take in trying to be better people. Even Negan didn't kill all the characters in the line up in 7x01 even when he could have and even after what happened in episode 6x12. Now, granted, those characters who lived eventually led an uprising against Negan, but that's more so because Negan is an asshole dictator. Team Rick should set the precedent that they're better than that. Not the same. Rick can show these remaining Saviors a better life. We saw Morgan change and we even saw a little growth in that wolf Owen.

Not all of the "innocent" workers at the Sanctuary are going to end up being good people and not all armed Saviors at these outpost are going to end up being bad people. Also, practically speaking - hostages can get you intel.

 

Also, I believe we're going to see some irony with this Tara v Jesus conflict.

I don't think Maggie will be completely on the same page as Jesus, nor Rick 100% on board with Tara.

This might be where we get to see how motivated by vengeance Maggie is given the loss of Glenn and the role these Saviors played in that - Whereas I think Rick killing Grace's father humanized him and we saw that flash forward in which he wanted his mercy to prevail over his wrath.

 

Exactly. It's all about what message Rick and Co. want to send right now to the remaining/surrendering Saviors. Tara is essentially falling into the trap of becoming the very people she is fighting against whereas I believe Jesus sees the long term bigger picture of what life should be like after the war - and that includes building a life together with remaining Saviors. Can't really rally people to be down for your cause and trust you during peace time when they witnessed you swiftly kill unarmed people who surrendered to you. How would that be different than Negan in their minds?

Also, Morgan's question I think really highlights the whole point of this thread? "Who are we/What do we do?"

I like that his question emphasized how difficult it is to be logically/morally consistent in the zombie apocalypse haha

 

They must be killed if Rick's group and their allies want to survive. They don't have the luxury of philosophical debates. We have already witnessed that if the situation is reversed the Saviors will show no hesitation to kill you, your loved ones, and f* ck you royally in the process killing you emotionally.