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Time for Trump to go

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    OK, so one of Trump's aides made a poster of him that had Nazi soldiers in it - eh, it's funny, but mistakes can happen, especially with free labor.

    Now though, The Donald is saying he doesn't like associating with Veterans who were captured? http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hero-remarks-totally-inappropriate/ar-AAdf0SS

    Specifically going after John McCain. Here's a summary of what McCain went through in Vietnam:

    McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP] McCain fractured both arms and a leg ejecting from the aircraft,[SUP][36][/SUP] and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake.[SUP][34][/SUP] Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him.[SUP][34][/SUP] McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hỏa Lò Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[SUP][35][/SUP]
    Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information; he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.[SUP][37][/SUP] His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.[SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][39][/SUP]
    McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care.[SUP][34][/SUP] By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his gray hair turned white as snow,[SUP][34][/SUP] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[SUP][40][/SUP] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[SUP][41][/SUP] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[SUP][42][/SUP]
    [SUP]I[/SUP]n mid-1968, John S. McCain Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release[SUP][44][/SUP] because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[SUP][45][/SUP] and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially.[SUP][44][/SUP] McCain turned down the offer; he would only accept repatriation if every man taken in before him was released as well. Such early release was prohibited by the POW's interpretation of the military Code of Conduct: To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured.[SUP][34][/SUP]

    In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain.[SUP][46][/SUP] He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][46][/SUP] Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, stopped by guards.[SUP][34][/SUP] Eventually, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".[SUP][34][/SUP] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[SUP][47][/SUP][SUP][48][/SUP] Many American POWs were tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements;[SUP][49][/SUP] virtually all of them eventually yielded something to their captors.[SUP][50][/SUP] McCain subsequently received two to three beatings weekly because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[SUP][51][/SUP]
    McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[SUP][52][/SUP] From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[SUP][53][/SUP] while McCain continued actively to resist the camp authorities.[SUP][54][/SUP] McCain and other prisoners cheered the U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, viewing it as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.[SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][55][/SUP]
    Altogether, McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was released on March 14, 1973.[SUP][56][/SUP] His wartime injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.


    What's always impressed me about McCain had nothing to do with his politics, but rather as a POW who was being abused, when they offered to let him go (because his father was an admiral), he refused unless the men in with him could be released as well. After all he went through, to do that is really HEROIC! I can't believe Trump would go after a man like that. It's time for Trump to go. I really don't want to see how as Commander in Chief he'd treat our troops!
     
  2. ltomlinson31

    ltomlinson31 Well-Known Member

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    I am completely torn on Trump.

    On one hand, he is an absolute idiot and the thought of him becoming President makes me want to roll over and die.

    On the other hand, taking this thing as less seriously as possible, I find the whole thing hilarious in a glorious train wreck sort of way. It really is quite an accomplishment how he has pissed so many people, both Democrat and Republican, and how he just keeps burying himself. Like, I remember seeing a short clip of him being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly, and Bill was talking about his comments on Mexicans (also, the Mexican pinata thing is hilarious), and Bill (paraphrased), basically asked Trump if he things he might not have said that. Like, this is Bill O'Reilly going "Hey, do you think saying that might have been a mistaken, hint hint".

    I don't want him to be President and I can just laugh at this thing when it's all said and done. But seriously, please everyone don't vote for this guy, lol.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    "I doubt I could cross the line and vote Republican. I have tremendous respect for McCain but I don't buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I'm concerned he sat out the war."

    -Al Franken, 2000
    Did Franken ever apologize for those comments? What Trump said was tame by comparison.
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I won't be voting for Franken for President either.
     
  5. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Franken's comment was even worse, but how is this a defense of Trump? That would be like me robbing a bank and telling the judge, "yeah, well, Dillinger robbed a bigger bank. Why aren't you bothering him?" Pointing out remote lapses of judgment of others does not excuse the current [and thus relevant] lapses of today. I'm not sure any rational person thought Trump could be president from day one, but I'm just kind of enjoying watching him expose himself for the boob that he is. I don't like Franken either. And he took his share of heat for that comment, because I remember when he made that comment, and I can remember hearing disgust over it. If Trump has some folks murdered, maybe we can defuse it by reminding people of Charles Manson. :p
     
  6. Lupey

    Lupey Member

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    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07/18/trump-right-about-hanoi-john-mccain/ Also may people believe that McCain was responsible for the USS Forrestal disaster.

    Things out there about McCain. He was an utter idiot and mistake prone while in the military. He was responsible for getting shot down by disobeying direct orders and flying below the ceiling. While in captivity he was nicknamed Songbird (because he sang like a bird) and was given extreme special privileges because of who his father was. This stuff is all out there just have to research and decide for yourself if you believe it.
     
    #6 Lupey, Jul 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
  7. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    What I find funny is that it's taken some people so long to turn against Trump. He's been in the angry/crazy mode for a long time now. A few years back he wanted to see the President's birth certificate. It's ridiculous that anyone would even take him seriously.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I remember in Iraq when the Iraquis put some downed pilot on t.v. who clearly had been badly beaten and had him say things like: "I condemn this aggression against the peaceful people of Iraq" or something like that, my memory isn't perfect, but I think the overall impression is valid. They beat the man until he said what they wanted him to, and it was probably that or be killed. John McCain apparently went through Hell in his 5 years of captivity. If he got to where he couldn't bear it anymore and said what they told him to, I'd understand. I doubt if many people will allow themselves to be tortured to death just for the sake of not saying what your captors want you to in this situation.

    That is MUCH different from Jane Fonda going over there on her own and posing on anti aircraft guns.
     
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  9. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The Republicans are getting a healthy dose of their own medicine. Serves them right.

    That said, I am pleased that my favorite GOP candidate, Lindsey Graham, was one of the first to speak against Trump, when he first said that Mexicans were rapists.
     
  10. ltomlinson31

    ltomlinson31 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah basically. This is a reason I just find it so funny. This is like basically how I expected his campaign to go.
     
  11. Lupey

    Lupey Member

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    Depends on who you ask about him going through "hell". Lots of talk that he wasn't tortured at all because of who he was. That he lived in the "lap of luxury" compared to other POWs again because of who his father was. If this is true, it would explain http://www.vvof.org/mccain_hides.htm
     
  12. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    To me, Donald Trump running for president, is no different than Tommy Chong running for president.
    It's all a joke.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    There was one cheech and chong movie where chong wanted cheech to teach him spanish, and cheech finally agreed, and said, "ok, your first word is 'pendejo', it means 'friend'".

    A little later cheech was driving and rear-ended this parked low rider car and there were like 10 hispanic guys sitting on the porch near it who get up and start walking over, and chong leans out the window and starts waving and saying, "hey pendejo, hey pendejo", and cheech kind of goes "ahh! not now man, not now!"

    It's still funny as a memory even now. Probably much MORE funny than Trump's presidency would be.
     
  14. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    And Trump knows this. He knows he's never going to stand in front of us as President of the United States. This is just a stage for him to keep himself relevant, famous, and rich. And the fact that such a significant percentage of people on the right actually take him seriously and rally behind him tells you a lot about the mentality of many people on the right.
     
  15. ltomlinson31

    ltomlinson31 Well-Known Member

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  16. Ragnar

    Ragnar Member

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    Trump is as funny as hell, he's making the entire presidential debates look ridiculous and finally entertaining.
    He's so arrogant he's hilarious.
    His hairdo cracks me up too, what I rich buffoon lol !
     
    #16 Ragnar, Jul 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
  17. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    I identify myself as conservative/libertarian, but I'm happy that Donald Trump is in the race and stirring up hell.

    I'm disappointed with the Republican leadership, and considering Trump's popularity, it seems a lot of other people feel the same.

    Yeah, Trump might not have a legitimate chance of winning the Republican nomination, but he's pissing off the Republican leadership and that's fine with me.
     
  18. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Ragnar

    Ragnar Member

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    Nice one [MENTION=26682]Sharpie61[/MENTION] lol !!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    He's damaging the other Republican candidates too because he's taking up all the oxygen during a time when they need to be defining themselves. And since he's a "larger than life" character, with many people in that party the other candidates actually end looking smaller in comparison to them.

    This is no big surprise, but the media's role in this is embarrassing too. Trump is playing them to get all of this free press since they thrive on sensationalism. If some good comes out of this, it would be that it spotlights some of the deep flaws in our system and the coverage of news. I won't hold my breath though about that happening.
     

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