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Time for Trump to go

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Care to bet on that? The Republicans will be here next year just like they were last year. Will there be a couple of terms of Democrats running things? Probably, but they'll use their power to p!ss people off, and then there'll be a Repub administration again. That's just how it goes.
     
  2. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    If he pardons himself, he is basically admitting that he is guilty of the crimes the impeachment has charged him with.
    Donald will never admit to being wrong


    The truth is out there
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I disagree on his "guilt by self-pardon". If I were Trump I'd say the Dems were going to try to find me guilty of something regardless of whether I was did anything or not, so I'm just pardoning myself in advance to spare myself the grief and personal expense of going to trial to prove my innocence. It makes sense as a rationale, IMO.

    Note, however, that I don't think a president should be *allowed* to pardon themselves in the first place. Maybe Pelosi will start a new constitutional amendment stating the same. That would be useful, IMO. OTOH... Congress probably won't do it, after all, many of them hold presidential aspirations!
     
  4. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    • Like Like x 1
  5. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    par·don
    /ˈpärdn/
    Learn to pronounce
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    Medieval History
    noun
    the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense.
    "he obtained pardon for his sins"


    The truth is out there
     
  6. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    Yeah cuz Trump hates going to court. Lol
     
  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    You can quote all the definitions you want, but they don't really apply here. This isn't a case where Trump would be pardoning himself from a specific incident (like robbing the liquor store on Elm street on Dec. 20th), The point is that in Trump's particular situation if it was legal for him to do, he would be pardoning himself for any and all crimes/offenses he was accused of that might have occurred during his term of office.

    What's the difference? In this case a pardon would be given where there isn't necessarily a crime in the first place, and in no crime was committed in the first place, he obviously couldn't be guilty of anything. Otoh, if he ever WAS accused of a crime, his pardon would kick in and he'd be freed from the consequences of a trial regardless of the outcome.

    So I'd say the pardon in this case would be better defined as a "get out of jail free" card like one would get in monopoly. Just like in the game, you may never even land on the "go to jail" square (the game's version of committing a crime), but if you do, or if someone says you did, you're covered.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    LOL, exactly. I can't see anyone who was in court as many times as Trump was being itchy to go back!
     
  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    While we here may agree that ANY riotous conduct should be prosecuted as such, that view isn't universal. For example, Don Lemon feels that the BLM rioters' conduct was justified, while the Trumpers' was not. I don't know how he figures someone burning down some random store (or looting) is justified, but there you go.

    ""I’m sick of people comparing, you can’t compare what happened this summer to what happened at the Capitol," Lemon told Cuomo. "It’s two different things. One was built on people, on racial justice, on criminal justice, right, on reform, on police not beating up – or police treating people of color differently than they do Whites. OK? That was not a lie. Those are facts. Go look at them. What happened at the Capitol was built on a lie, perpetrated by the president and the people who support him.""

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnns-don-lemon-2020-built-facts-riot
     
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Jim Jordan pointing out hypocrisy in the House:

    "
    House Rules Committee Chairman Jim McGovern on Wednesday defended his 2017 objection to President Trump's electoral votes from Alabama as a "protest" as he sparred with GOP Rep. Jim Jordan during House debate the parameters for debating the latest article of impeachment against Trump.

    Jordan, R-Ohio, a staunch Trump ally, began the war of words by attacking McGovern, D-Mass., in his floor comments.

    "In his opening remarks, the Democrat chair of the Rules Committee said that Republicans last week voted to overturn the results of an election. Guess who the first objector was on Jan. 6, 2017?" Jordan said. "First objector, the Democrat chair of the Rules Committee. And guess what state he objected to? Alabama, the very first state called."

    Jordan continued: "They can object to Alabama in 2017, but tell us we can't object to Pennsylvania in 2021? Pennsylvania, where the state Supreme Court just unilaterally extended the election to Friday? Pennsylvania, where the secretary of state unilaterally changed the rules, went around the legislature in an unconstitutional fashion?""

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem-lawmaker-defends-2017-trump-electoral-objection-jim-jordan
     
  11. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Trump has been impeached, officially. 10 Republicans (so far) voted YES.
     
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  12. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Donald can now brag that he has accomplished something that no other president has done.


    The truth is out there
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  13. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    Lol I thought about that.
     
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  14. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! (taps fingertips together)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    ok, so you live in a corn field or the desert, lol. JK


    Yeah, I imagine it must be a difficult task to come up with a policy for a dense urban environment like NYC. I'm sure they have micro clusters and colored zones there depending on the infection level like everywhere else in the state. However, I have no idea what DeBlasio has or has not been doing since, if you remember, I mentioned a few times now that I live over 300 miles away from the Apple and don't keep my finger on the pulse of down state.

    Now our mayor has been petitioning the state on behalf of the business community here. What's difficult where I reside is when half of your suburb is in the orange zone and half is in the yellow. In one spot, and I wasn't exaggerating, the demarcation line actually goes down the center of a busy street where one side is yellow and one side orange. Crazy.



    Meh. Didn't bother me in the least that he wanted to go. The game was going to go on whether or not there were fans in the stands. If he's a season ticket holder, and I really don't know if he is or not, he would probably have a sky box or could have made use of one. He no doubt could have gone up there by his lonely if he wanted and watched it privately but he opened the arena for those die hard fans. Then again he might have originally been a guest of the team owners but the die hards didn't want him there so he was a good sport about it and gave his tickets to a health care worker. Said he had to work on his state of the state address anyways, :p

    Personally, it can't be a very pleasant experience to have to sit outside, in January, in the Bills stadium to watch a bunch of men running around that may look like ants depending on how far up your seats are. I would rather watch the game on my big screen tv in the comfort and warmth of my home with the benefit of instant replay and commentary on plays that I am not an expert about, but that's just me, lol.


    Obviously they're not completely closed but restaurant owners say it's a hail Mary to stay solvent if you're only take out. They say they need at least a 50% in dining occupancy rate to even stay afloat. If they're not spreaders then they'd like to bring their customers back for inside dining. Now non essential businesses in orange zones can't survive for long either if they can't bring in customers. Some have gone to also having an on line presence but they'd like to bring the people back in person too, even at a reduced occupancy rate.

    Among many things Andy mentioned in his state of the state address was that he wants to lower the tax rates for small businesses and legalize Mary Jane, I think for recreational purposes ( I surmise) to increase revenue. I'm on board. There are days I could use a joint.;)


    Puh-leeze, lol. Between playing cards at the senior center once a week, shopping, having dinner with his lady friend at an open restaurant every Fri or Sat., taking a walk, weather permitting and chatting with the neighbors if they're out, etc. etc. he gets around more than I do! Always masked of course, he finally got himself registered with the state and he was told he'll be called when his name comes up as the queue is random. Now that they've opened it up for those 65+ I'll register myself. It could be a little while though. People are willing but the supply so far doesn't equal the number of people that are currently eligible.



    Yup. We have some craft brewers that have erected tents with heaters (outside dining) so more people can still get a brewsky, even in Jan. lol.
     
  16. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Even if he were to try and pardon himself that would only apply to federal crimes. He would still be liable after he left office for state crimes.

    Most experts say a self pardon would be a cluster f**k. One article for instance:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...on-could-invite-the-criminal-charges-he-fears
     
  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Was Jim wearing his mask? I hope so. Is it me or does he look stubbly. Some guys can pull off the look but I think it makes him appear slovenly for some reason.
     
  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I thought the same thing! The funny part is I can see him bragging about it: "I was impeached more than anybody, I'm the best in the history of the country".
     
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A riot-free zone. If we can keep the New Yorkers, left-wing Californios, and Seattleites out -- it might even stay that way. :)


    Oh, I agree! But to the people who want to paint their faces, shout, and take their shirts off in the stands in January it's a big letdown to not have the stadium open. I just think it's a crock that after shutting the state down for everyone else the one game he said he really wanted to go to "magically" got approved for being a fan-filled test case. :rolleyes:



    Maybe it's time to tell Mr. Frisky to settle down a bit! I know what you mean though, some people are going to do what they're going to do, regardless. It's nice to see him out enjoying his life to the fullest, even if it does raise his risk of infection.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that the resentful left-wing will hound Trump for years, if not the rest of his life.
     

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