Battle Royale Forums

Welcome to Battle Royale Forums. Join us today and become part of the growing group of survivors.

Was Rick's action immoral ?

Discussion in 'Episode 612 - Not Tomorrow Yet' started by Shonen, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Shonen

    Shonen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    11
    Rick and his group have basically become hitmen. They cut a deal with the hilltops, where they'll kill off all the saviors in exchange for food. Now the reason I call Rick's actions immoral is that he assumes that all the saviors are bad and killed every last one of them in their sleep without any discrimination. This falls in line with Rick and his group sneaking into Woodbury at night and slighting the throat of every person in that town because of the governor and his small security detail attacking the prison.

    Anyone think Rick's killing of everyone at the base was morally wrong ?
     
  2. Zalanii

    Zalanii Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    7
    Immoral based on our world - yes
    Immoral based in the TWD world - no
     
  3. Camilleyun

    Camilleyun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    183
    On it's face, yes, stabbing people in the skull while they're sleeping is immoral. However, based on their experience and what the Hilltop community told them, Negan's group would eventually find and try to control them, apparently by killing one or more people right off the bat. Those who aren't killed have to live under that tyranny.Rick's group was killing 2 birds with one stone, killing people who were going to kill them while securing allies and a food source in the Hilltop.
    Trying to avoid being slaughtered and/or subjugated by mad men tends to mute one's philosophies. Unless you're Morgan. But Gareth had a valid point..You're either the butcher or the cattle : )
     
  4. TWDBostonGal

    TWDBostonGal Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ditto here. If there was even a hint of a threat against my family, I'd do the same thing, especially when food is running so low (acorn and beet cookies.....I'll pass)
     
  5. Zalanii

    Zalanii Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    7
    It was either they killed them while they slept and lower the number of casualties

    Or go up and knock on the door and "talk", and probably lead to violence and more casualties.




    It's going to be awkward when they find out that most of The Saviors are old people, women and children though.
     
  6. RarreKZ

    RarreKZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    3,785
    Likes Received:
    64
    It may be immoral, but Rick is not gonna take any chances to go and "talk" to them like Morgan suggested, it would lead to more bloodshed and not just on the Savior's side.
     
  7. DGribble19

    DGribble19 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    11
    Based on the hilltop story and what happened to Daryl, Abe, and Sasha being almost killed for no reason, I would say it's justified. Killing the cancer before it spreads
     
  8. Apollonia

    Apollonia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    453
    Ok, you have walking dead people who's ONLY goal in life is to eat you, then you run into a lunatic like the Governor, lose your SAFE home and head out into the unknown, to be run off from a group of degenerates in a temporary shelter you found, who later meet up with you and try to (a) rape your son, (b) rape your companion ALL while you watch and then kill you last, to get away from them to get to what they think is ANOTHER safe zone to meet up with people who want to EAT them, who they get away from only to have the few escapees follow and EAT part of their friend, to get away from there and FINALLY find a safe zone that they feel they can make even SAFER.

    Immoral? HELLLLLL NO! At this point, they rightfully have the "kill first, don't bother asking questions" mentality. Surprised it didn't happen sooner.
     
  9. mtito914

    mtito914 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    18
    The ZA is literally a living Hell.. It's Kill or Die. Kill or be killed.. This was a preemptive move on people who will kill you and your loved ones..
     
    #9 mtito914, Mar 10, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  10. AnnieOakley

    AnnieOakley Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    31
    ... Or you die and you Kill.
     
  11. Well Walker

    Well Walker Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    4
    The act by Rick was not moral. But Rick lives in an immoral world full of violence and chaos. In the Walking Dead universe you have to do some unpleasant things just to survive. When Rick was given the information about Negans group in his eyes it was the right thing to do. Moral? No, but it was the correct action to take.
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    I can't remember if it was in Afghanistan or some Eastern European country, but war broke out and tribes that hated each other insulated themselves against each other and started shooting it out. They also were noted to have started *trading* for things they needed with their enemies within days.

    None of that happens on TWD. They don't talk at all, or gainfully interact at all, it's just kill or be killed on TWD, so within that context Rick's actions are reasonable. No behavior he takes with the Saviors will yield a good result based on his past experience. Moral? Not really. The most reasonable thing to do *in the TWD universe*? Yes.
     
  13. Damaniel

    Damaniel Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    3
    The Woodbury comparison is interesting. The base we saw raided tonight didn't seem to have any (for lack of a better term) "non-military personnel", but what if they had? What if one of the rooms they crept in to had a mother and child sleeping?

    The frustrating thing is, while there could be some individuals in the Saviors who are good and shouldn't be murdered, there's no way to know, and they would have no way of knowing until it's too late. Not to mention, Rick's group had to be sneaky in the attack, or further risk casualties.

    I think Tara's reaction in the church showed us that we should be drawing a bit of a comparison to the whole Woodbury thing. No, it's not a perfect analogy. No, Rick isn't turning into the Gov'nah (the only right way to spell that word btw). But not everyone in Woodbury (and the 2nd group that actually destroyed the prison) was bad.

    Remember this scene when the prison was destroyed? What would Rick have done if one of those rooms had a 10 year old pointing a gun at his face?
     
  14. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365

    The world right now as it exsists in TWD is a war zone basically. Decisions have to be made in a split second as to life and death and it's always tragic when a child is involved. I absolutely hate the thought that a child would be killed but if they have the capacity to do greater harm then they sometimes have to be taken out. Let's use American Sniper to illustrate...

    [video]https://youtu.be/L83DVg6A65w[/video]

    but who enjoys it

    [video]https://youtu.be/rWiIyYARdoI[/video]

    contrast with Negan:

    [video]https://youtu.be/RDTifFGBcAI[/video]
     
    #14 purriwinkle, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  15. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,278
    Likes Received:
    445
    Would it be immoral ,since they are short food, to take the remains of the saviors to eat?
     
  16. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    They should take anything and everything they can that will be useful.
     
  17. jackson04

    jackson04 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    29
    Rick does know Negan's group is bad, due to the encounter that Daryl, Abe and Sasha had with the Governor. But at the same time are all of the Saviors horrible people? Well the best action to take is kill them all. That 100% ensures the safety of Rick's group.

    I like to think back of when Carol killed Karen and David. Was her actions justifiable? Yes. She was trying to protect the group as a whole by taking them out and ending the sickness. Rick deemed her as immoral and dangerous and sent her packing. But are his actions anymore better? Just as Carol pointed out to him he had killed Shane, which was one of their own and a threat. Different situations, yes...but the actions were taken to ensure safety. Hard decisions are having to be made in this time and some may seem good at the moment, but lead to worse consequences. But, this is a TV show and what happens happens :) It's ENTERTAINMENT!
     
  18. Rust

    Rust Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    6
    The show attempts to make you think it's not immoral by making these "bad guys" very stereotypical tropey bad guys. They talk like bad guys and pin up polaroids of dead people just so you KNOW they're evil. Ricks people=good, Negans people=bad. Don't question it. Stab a sleeping man in the eye..don't question whether or not he has a family or is being forced to work for Negan or anything..he's "bad" so it's ok to kill him in his sleep. Lazy lazy writing.
     
  19. br0k3n

    br0k3n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    3
    The entire deal agreed to is mercenary - so all of it is immoral, not to mention stupid negotiations. A "moral" approach might have been to trade arms and training for immediate food supply. Negotiate a long term food supply for military alliance. Team up with hilltop and perhaps other groups for all out war with the Saviors.

    While I understand others making reference/analogy to the pressures of combat...even in war there are rules/laws governing engagement. Rick and the rest of the group were really shortsighted in this whole deal. Throwing out the moral compass has hurt their ability to think critically.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    It's like both sides are part of their respective cities' armies though. It doesn't matter if an individual soldier in an army is a good or bad person, what matters is they are willing to kill in the name of their State.

    Another way you could look at his willingness to kill everyone in their sleep is that they decided the enemy was thoroughly bad and all of them should die before knowing who was inside. If Rick found a supply (or had Eugene make one) of poison gas, would he have used it on the compound and killed everyone inside without the risk of losing the lives of one of his own people? Absolutely. Would that be a moral action?
     
    #20 Morgotha, Mar 12, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice