I don't believe it's Rick's fault, it was Andrew who cut the gate open with the axe..

 

not to get off your real subject.....but......

I don't think this was entirely Shane's reasons for wanting Rick out of the way. He was insane and wanted what he couldn't have and it drove him to the point where he would stop at nothing to make them something he COULD have. I think keeping them safe might have been his motive at the beginning, but it quickly morphed into something darker.

 

Shane only wanted Lori and Carl; he never cared about the rest of the group.

Lori regretted her affair with Shane, and hated him for lying to her, but she kept buying his lies.

Carl looked up to Shane, but Shane could never replace Rick.

Shane's final description of the two reveal what he really thought of them: Lori was "a broken woman," with no idea of what she wanted in life. Carl was a "weak boy," a good kid, but too soft like Rick.

 

I'm not sure how Shane could have done anything differently than Rick to end up with a different result than what happened...

 

Agreed Rick has been at fault for most of this groups problems he's not a good leader he's just bossy. Assuming somebody who tried to kill him was dead based on a scream was yet another foolish mistake. Just like not properly locking down their block so they had a 100% safe fall back point. Just like taking your 7 best fighters to simply move a couple cars leaving the weakest people with only Carl defending.

 

They say you reap what you sow, or what goes around comes around. With Shane's methods, I'm not so sure they would have even made it to the prison.

 

If karma was a driving force the Governor would have been long gone and Dale would still be here.

 

Well its not like either man could have totally prevented the fact that Lori went through dangerous labor.
Basically what I'm saying is that neither of them are magical wizards that can save a woman from complicated birth.

 

I'm not talking about karma, I don't believe in that crap anyway. I mean Shane was a hothead and an idiot, that's why he died as early as he did, and he probably would have never made it to the prison. The Governor, based on what I have seen, is not an idiot and certainly not a hothead. And Dale was just plain stupid wondering around in the dark by himself with walkers lurking around.

 

I don't think Rick is at fault for anything. Rick is doing the best he can with what he has got, and he has taken it upon himself to look out for the safety and welfare of the group. Yes there have been casualties, but these people are at war and it is crazy to think that all these people would make it to the end and die of old age. Shane was a selfish self centered person who was only about himself and what he could do to make himself survive.

Rick made the prison as safe as he could and it was not his fault the walkers got back in. And it definitely was not his fault what happened to Lori.

All in all I would rather have Rick on my team any day of the week. The guy is not afraid to make Decisions and that is what these people need. If he was that bad of a leader why has there not been a mutiny?

 

I think Lori would have died either way, with or without the zombie attack. But in response to t-dog's death: Ts not ricks fault, but he does indirectly hold some responsibility. I think he will definitely learn from this experience and no longer make an execution-by-zombie mistake!

 

Off topic: Other than plot point, why did Andrew come back? If he got an axe he could have gotten pretty far and he obviously had no issue dealing with walkers.

On topic: Just as the coach is ultimately responsible for a team loss, or a General responsible for a soldier's death, Rick has been responsible for every death(and dismemberment) since "taking over". In my opinion he's still too much Rick and not enough Shane. Shane would have killed or locked up the prisoners(probably remembering that he's a cop), I also would like to think that Andrea would still be with the group. However if his back were against the wall, Shane would sacrifice any member of the group to save himself/the group. Given my "druthers" I'll take Rick as the leader. But if I had to put up with him crying I'd probably shoot him myself.

 

OK as I see it, if Shane had killed Rick these things would have happened.
Shane would have went back and claimed Randal killed Rick.
Glen and Daryl would have pointed out that was impossible.
The group would have fractured.
Shane would have rallied against his loosing so much power over the group and would have tried intimidation.
Shots fired to intimidate.
Herd hears them.
Hershel dies defending his Farm.
Farm lost.
Group does NOT re-gather.
Most if not all die in the following months.
If they found a safe haven, Lori would've died because there was no Hershel or anyone trained by Hershel.
End result WORSE.

 

Yeah if Shane had killed Rick at the end of season 2 the show would be done.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Dale and everyone else in that group had spent a long time at a farm that they considered at the time to be a "safe haven". He also wasn't very far away from the campsite when this happened. There were also plenty of times that others "wandered around in the dark" (and in the light) in that season and didn't come across a thing. Dale's death was a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.....which you can say for a lot of the deaths during this show.