Exactly I wonder if there were any meds for psychotic behavior in Merle's bag of goodies :Grin:

 

True dat! ...the group didn't stand a chance w/two crazies teaming up.

 

I doubt that. She would've tried her 'drama' on the Governor and been in the fish tank with Shane.

 

He started breaking down not because of problems running the group, the zombies, or anything like that. He started breaking down because Lori played around with his mind and his emotions. He obviously was in love with Lori and was there for Carl and ready to step in and take care of the family and then Rick shows up and now the love of his life Lori hates him and is treating him like dirt then to add to that she's pregnant with his baby possibly.

Shane did everything to protect Lori and Carl including getting rid of Otis to ensure Carl survived. The difference between Shane and Rick is that Shane understood what had to be done. Rick tried to be diplomatic and unrealistic. Everything Rick has learned to do is what Shane knew he had to do even it was killing another human being to survive. Rick wasn't just another group member but a risk to the group because he wasn't aggressive enough to make the right decisions. Like with Hershal he tried to help him with the walkers instead of telling Hershal like it was and putting one in their zombie heads. Unfortunately they both found out the hardway that Zombie's can't be contained like that.

Then it finally came down to really Ricks way of leading Vs. Shanes on top of Lori basically playing with Shanes and Ricks emotions and putting the two against each other. Shane didn't want to follow around behind Rick because he knew that Rick was weak and wasn't willing to do what it took to survive. Like how he tried to keep the kid that was shooting at them a live and then trying to set him free when Shane new he had to die if he wanted to protect the group.

Now flash forward to season 3 and what do you see Rick doing and talking about? Killing people to keep the group safe. Between Lori playing with his head and Rick playing around with his ability to lead and protect the group of course Shane snapped.

think about it..

who saved his bestfriend from a suspect by not only killing the suspect but also getting them medical aid? Shane
who told Carl to keep the gun? Shane
who saved Carl by getting the medicine? Shane
who protected the group from the walkers in the barn by getting hershal to realize they had to go? Shane
who beat up Carols abusive husband? Shane
who lead the group to safety the first time around? Shane
who taught Andrea how to shoot and helped make her a stronger part of the group? Shane

Lets see what Rick has done.

Who was shot on duty and ended up in a coma? Rick
Who put the group in danger constantly? Rick
Who got their son shot? Rick
Who lost Sophia? Rick
Who wept like a baby after his wife died knowing that the entire group has suffered from heavy losses of loved ones themselves not to mention Carol who lost her husband and child? RICK!
who's an indecisive leader? Rick
Who let a man escape and ended up jeopardizing the safety of the entire group? Rick!

Lets try this one...

How many people have died because of Rick?

Lets see the first camp was overrun with Zombies because they followed Rick
Sophia became lost and Zombie because of Rick
Merle was left to die on a roof top because of Rick
Dale.Tdog,Lori, even Hershal losing his leg all were because of Ricks inability to keep his group safe.

Rick isn't a leader, he's just an idiot trying to locate his balls and step up to the plate.

Guys like Dale and Rick are obsolete in this world. Shane hated dale because he was weak and didn't have what it took to survive. He tried to be diplomatic in a kill or be killed world and in the end he got killed.

Shane belongs in this world... Dale was right about that but not for the reasons he said but because Shane knows how to survive.

Who would want to follow a man that breaks down and weaps infront of his people? I haven't seen a worse leadership reaction since G.W. Bush was told the US was under attack.

 

[MENTION=4189]Tdog[/MENTION] That's a bit much. Shane was playing fast and loose with everyone's lives. He did a lot of good but Shane was definitely on the ragedy edge. He put down Otis to save his own ass, not Carl's. He knew they both wouldn't have made it and needed fresh meat to distract the zeds. Sophia lost Sophia, Rick put told her to stay put. She obviously didn't. Otis shot Carl. Rick had no part in that. Who's kept the group together and is for the most part saving their humanity.

Rick is the type of guy that will make himself a monster so that the group can remain humane. Where Shane was a monster and would rather throw someone to the wolves to save his own skin. So most of your points are just flat out one sided against Rick however there's way more to the story.

 

I really don't understand the Shane worship. I numbered your points, because there are a lot of them.

1. Rick killed people in Season 2 to keep the group safe. Shane killed a man to save his own ass.
2. It was part of Shane's job. What else would he have done?
3. Shane had no right to tell Carl to keep a gun. He wasn't Carl's father.
4. True. But his lack of an intelligent plan killed an innocent man.
5. Shane wasted a large portion of the groups finite ammunition. The walkers could have been put down without that waste. He made his point on the walker Hershal was leading.
6. Shane didn't beat up Ed to stop the abuse, he did it because he was mad and Ed was a legit target.
7. We don't know WHO made the Atlanta camp. And it was a moronic place.
8. I'll give you this one.
9. How is that Rick's bad? It's a risk all LEO's take to protect us.
10. Shane did just as much.
11. Really? I think it was Shane's fault for not grabbing the bullet in flight. It was an accident.
12. Shane was there as well. Who ran after her to try and save her? We don't know what happened afterwards.
13. Was the situation secure at the time? Then let the man grieve. (Yes I think it was over the top, but I have seen similar reactions)
14. In season 1 & 2 he was and I complained about this.
15. Shane broke Randall out!! Unless you mean Andrew, and there you are right.
16. None. they died because of the world they live in.
17. Really? I seem to remember the walkers getting to the camp BEFORE Rick. And the attack squarely falls on Shane's shoulders for not preparing layered defenses in the WEEKS BEFORE RICK SHOWED UP.
18. I thought she became lost because she panicked because of the herd and Rick did everything he could to save her.
19. Merle was left on a roof because he was out of control. Rick went to recover him while Shane wanted to leave him.
20. T-Dog and Dale died because they didn't pay attention to their surroundings, same with Hershal's leg. Lori died because of a high risk pregnancy in the world they live in.
21. And Shane was a lunatic looking for his IQ and didn't care about stepping up to the plate, just control.
22. Rick is alive at almost 1 year, Shane has been dead for 8 months. Who has what it took to survive?
23. Who is dead now?
I'm no fan of Rick (although so far this season, he has improved). I've said before "he has the IQ of a tree frog" but Shane was a balloon without a string. I might follow Rick (temporarily), but I would get the hell away from Shane, he was a bomb waiting to explode.

 

1. There were other cops on scene, and Shane didn't radio 911
2. It was Rick's words that convinced Carl to take the gun
3. Shane brought the medical supplies and sacrificed Otis, it was Hershel who saved Carl
4. Shane forced the group into a fight-or-flight scenario; the barn was secure until Shane broke the walkers out
5. Shane was right to beat Ed, but he was also taking his frustrations out on Ed
6. Shane didn't lead; others helped any way they could or others did what they pleased
7. Shane taught the group to shoot, only because Rick brought back guns

Shane only cared about Lori and Carl, not the group.

 

1. Rick was shot on duty, an everday risk for a cop
2. the world is populated by walkers; no matter where you go, walkers will soon follow
3. Rick didn't even want Carl to help search for Sophia, he relented against his better judgement
4. If Sophia stayed where Rick left her, she'd be alive
5. Despite their troubles, Rick loved Lori; it doesn't make Rick a weak leader because he just learned his wife is dead
6. Rick was frantic to find Sophia, that's the reason why he allowed Carl to help search
7. Rick considers the best options for the group to survive
8. Rick believed Andrew was being torn apart by walkers; Rick didn't clarify because he realized he just sank to Shane's level

Off topic, but on 9/11, George W. Bush was visting an elementary school. When Bush was first told of the attacks, he didn't respond because he didn't want to frighten the children. Off camera there was an aide updating him with notes and asking him to remain calm and seated.

 

Yes?

OMG OLOL

 

Yes, Shane knew what had to be done to survive, but he was still not hard enough to his friends, he knew, between Rick and him, one had to die, and he decided to kill his best friend, but he simply could not pull that trigger.

 

Shane was brilliant! Having a camp that's real close to a large city full of walkers with no barricades whatsoever!

 

1) This was early stage of the ZA, people did not know better, they stayed close to big city for possible rescue from government and more easier to get supplies
2) In the Atlantic camp, there was not a group,there were some scared people camping together, people there listened advise from Shane, but Shane was not their leader.

 

That's right. It took Rick to make them a group.

 

I don't remember that moron doing much of anything at the camp except arguing with everybody and screwing Lori.

 

He did 3 other things. He picked which mushrooms were good to eat, he got water and finally reminded everyone to boil the water.

 

Why would Rick put a Bullet in the head of live people? Doesn’t everyone have the basic human right to live and fight the battle that is before them? Rick in my opinion is a good leader. He is not perfect, but on the other hand who is. I believe in the earlier seasons it was Rick who said “We do not kill the living.” When I became an NCO in the Marine Corps I was told by a senior NCO that no one is perfect. But he also told me that a good leader makes a decision and sticks with it. Right, Wrong or indifferent make a decision. Rick does this and that is why I feel that the group has stood by him and not left to strike out on their own. Would Daryl really stay in the group and listen to Rick if he did not respect him as a leader? Leaders carry the weight of the world on their shoulders especially in a time like these people are in. So even if Rick does not want to be a Leader, its time to suck it up buttercup and drive on.

P.S. Shane was a douche.

 

LOL - I guess he wasn't completely useless.