Haiti and the USA are two VERY different places. We have a very large portion of the population who are selfish and want what they feel they are entitled to and have no qualms about taking by force what they think they deserve regardless of whether or not it belongs to someone else. Take 9/11 for example, who were the people who pulled together to run TO ground zero (for the most part) and help in any way they could? GOOD people with a true sense of community and service. NOT crack heads, alcoholics, thugs, killers and junkies, who I submit would exploit a ZA to the fullest.

For good folks like you and I yes. But I think we would be in the minority and would likely die trying to save or help our loved ones. The riff raff however, would be that much more desperate and dangerous because of the circumstances they now find themselves in. I don't think they would waste any time scheming to do anything or spend any time with niceties to get what they want. They would simply take by force and do exactly what you proposed in another thread, shoot everybody, wound others to get what they want, then move on and repeat.

 

I would argue that this statement answers your question. The zombies are irrelevant. As you said, they can be easily avoided with a little forethought and planning.

The larger issue is the breakdown of law and order, which effectively released those "that feel they are entitled to and have no qualms about taking by force what they think they deserve". All societys have them, but mostly they are kept in check by prisons and police etc. Take the civil war in the Congo. Those bands of militia are ranging unchecked reaping tragedy after tragedy on the population of that country. There is no civilization and they fight among themselves.

The ZA has reduced the civilized USA to the level of the Congo. The most resourceful and defended groups will survive. There are probably other groups out there like Ricks. But they have to be careful to defend agaist those like Dave.

Perhaps over time, as a larger group builds a fortified location and starts to rebuild civilization with law and order, they can then start taking in those smaller groups and start working together... but until that time... each group has to lookout for their own survivial first and foremost.

(PS... did anyone else think that you could take out Dave and put in Shane and have the result be the same?)

 

Oh... by the way... Falling Skies is returning this summer ... http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=83503 .. they are in production of Season 2 now.

 

Of course there will be battle between groups for supplies or shelter.

In the ZA you will need to think of every group as a threat to your survival.

 

There are plenty of examples of what can happen when society breaks down. Take a look at Yugoslavia and Hungary during WW2. Partisan groups not only fought Nazi occupiers but terrorized helpless civilians, stealing, raping and murdering. Although it was highly exaggerated at the time the things that went in on in the Super Dome after Katrina gives you an idea of just how fast some people revert to savagery. The shelter I evacuated to after the storm showed signs of the same thing beginning to happen but luckily there was a strong police presence that nipped it in the bud. The difference from TWD in both of those instances was that survival wasn't really in doubt. imagine if it was though

Most people do realize that it's in their own self interest to be part of a community that strives for cooperation. Unfortunately though there are a lot of people who are violent and greedy by nature.

Guns weren't invented for hunting.

 

HSZ, this is a VERY interesting topic and I appreciate these great responses.

Let's go to the "riff-raff" you mentioned. While all you said of them is true, would not it also be true that VERY few of them will actually make it beyond the first week of the ZA? If we're being honest, the areas where such people tend to live in great number would be PRIME for the spread of the zombie contagion. Th inner cities, housing projects, prisons; large, restricted institutions of any kind - get caught in one of these at the onset of the ZA and your chances of survival are in the single digits. Hell, most college campuses are going to be turning out hordes of the walking dead (not that their parents will notice the difference until it's too late). States where the mass of people live in highly concentrated areas are going zombie VERY quickly. To make it political- most "Blue" states are probably going to have 95% of their population zombiefied (again, not that the rest of us will notice the difference until it's too late).

That's a joke, but you see my point. There will be certain areas where the mindset, attitudes, and lifestyle of the populace render them more prepared to deal with the onset of the ZA and other areas where, even if one is a person of action, circumstances are such that they will have very little recourse. Imagine being in NYC as opposed to Huntsville, AL and weigh your odds.

So while the numbers suggest SOME survivors will quickly turn to the dark side, logic would assume that the VAST majority of survivors are going to be decent people who, while intent on keeping their's secure, would also be the type most likely to quickly form bonds with other survivors.

 

Greyone, It is a fun scenario to kick around, I suppose that’s why we love the show and are so passionate about it.

While I believe that the sub cultures of the USA would die in similar percentages to the general worldwide population, overall I think folks in Huntsville AL would survive in greater numbers to folks in NYC simply because they are more isolated. However, the folks who did manage to survive NYC, or say Philly, would theoretically have to be the roughest of the rough to be able to escape such an ordeal thus making them less likely to defend against because they would be so ruthless and unpredictable. I believe people would rally together, but it would be those who are already inherently good, not those who have never been morally grounded and know nothing of values.

 

There are other advantages that "riff-raff" have as well. They tend to have access to firearms and in some cases, lots of firearms. They tend to have had practice at hurting other people without conscious. Also, in the more "extreme" cases, they have a well established hierarchy. Gangs, even loosely organized, are a heck of a lot more organized then say a band of "decent" folk who just happen to decide to work together.

 

Duzy, a lot of that is myth. The media makes it seem as though the inner cities are flooded w/ weapons but in reality, the black market gun trade wouldn't begin to supply the hoodlums with the necessary firepower they'd need to make it pass day two of the ZA. Combine that with their natural environment and they're all stumbing around trying to eat each other by sunrise of the third day.

As far as organizational structure- again, don't believe the hype. Gangs are well organized when it comes to situations they're familiar with: dealing with police, the drug trade, different sets (gang groups). But show them a horrific looking dude eating his friends brains and there will be instant chaos. Without throwing members of my extended family under the bus, I'll just say some live in Brooklyn, NYC on the 53rd floor of a building. When the ZA hits ain't NO ONE comin' out of those blocks human.

 

Not so sure that I agree with this. My personal experience tells me that they have their share of firearms.

This I can get behind to some extent. It really is difficult to tell how people would react to a ZA. They do have, and at least I think you can agree on this, the ability to hurt people without hesitation. I don't know you, and while I don't necessarily agree with you, I would hesitate to throw you to a zombie to save my own skin. They wouldn't. I would be the guy trying to save you if at all possible. Not because I like you, but because I am not a sociopath. Given time in the ZA that all probably would, or could change. On the onset though, I'd probably get myself killed being nice.

 

Duzy, I'm 34yrs old. Grew up on UGK, Snoop, Dre, Outkast... Still ride around bangin' that, Kanye & Jay Z, some Obie Trice (as long as my wife and daughters aren't in the car). As my cousin says about me; the house and the car have changed but the ni66a in them still the same...

Believe me, the guns they run on the streets aren't Sig 45'sand Stoeger Cougars. Damn sure no H&Ks The average homie with a 9mm is going to be lucky to have more than 9 shots and if his gun can do even that w/out seizing on him. They aren't home cleaning and oiling so that weapon is going to be useless half an hour into the ZA. And-for those who do have the trusty revolver- the problem w/ NYC, Washington D.C., Detroit, and other large metro areas is that since they've effectively outlawed weapons, there's no ready supplies of ammunition.

In Nashville, Austin, Cody, or Birmingham the remnant will literally trip over the guns dropped by the 90% after they Zombed out. Yeah, Bass Pro shops got cleaned out but about half the cars in the parking lot will have unopened packages of shells- purchased just before their previous owner realized they'd always hated weapons and that he or she didn't really know how to use the one they'd just stood in line for and didn't load in the store because the sign said not to and so were bitten on their way back out the door. Yeah, they beat the zombie off with the heavy pistol but by the time they got back to the car they knew it was over... This, by the way, happens to about 98% of those doing the gun store raids immediately following the widespread outbreak of zombi fever. The smart guys went and bought guns the day they heard a small CNN story about an isolated incident at a reasearch facility that included "possible cannibalism". The wise men already had their weapons and plenty of ammo, had spent years at the range, and most will get through the critical first 72hours.

Yes, being friendly will get one killed. Placing strangers on the list of People to Save during the ZA will pretty much ensure that one doesn't get too far down that list and that one's own name isn't on it either. A person passed on the way OUT as one heads for open country who has a weapon, the mindset to use it, and the capacity to assist in escape is welcome to join the party but anyone carrying a bitten child they won't put down, who's crying uncontrollably, or shuffles about in a near catatonic state should be prayed for and summarily forgotten. Even an able bodied person should be left if they inhibit escape in ANY fashion. This is Operation ENDGAME on now... So long as one believes outside help can be expected, and that the immediate situation is contained, one might assume a more benign approach. Once it's apparent one is on one's own a certain ruthlessness must take over.

Watching Nat Geo Wild one of the most fascinating things to see is a lone apex predator interact in a kill or be killed environment/situation. Given what we think about lions, hyenas, and crocodiles, is it "wrong" for humans to behave in that same way?

 

I will agree with you that the "Phillys" might drive them from the farm. But from the way Hershel was holding that gun and siding with Rick, I have a feeling old Hershel just joined Rick in this dance.

 

We did get that strong sense didn't we? I thought bringing Hershel into the fold and out of his drunken stupor was going to be a long drawn out affair... glad I was wrong.

 

Yeah, my opinion of Hershel has always been that he's a good man but horribly delusional and willfully misguided. Now that he's had the cold water of Reality splashed in his face, I think he's going to become a valuable "elder" for the group.

I don't know the role he played in the comics, so this is just taking into account all the events from this series.

 

There is more firearms sold on the Black Market than in gun stores. I'm not saying inner cities are flooded with firearms, just there is more than enough firearms on the Black Market to do it. In recent events, a certain election sent people into a buying frenzy. There was enough ammo bought in the US to supply China! Firearms, Para-Military styled weapons inperticulare wasn't to far behind as well. So there is easily enough firearms in the US to arm everyone 1-3 times over.

 

You just lost any respect I had for by bringing politics into the mix followed byrefering to Obama as chairman.

 

That's all right, I'm sure he gained some elsewhere.