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What was Michonne doing at the beginning?

Discussion in 'Episode 310 - Home' started by Tdog, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    If she'd killed the Gov when she tried at Woodbury (and he really needs killing), they wouldn't have the problems they have right now. His attack on the prison had nothing to do with Michonne. He was planning it anyway. It's Michonne's fault? Are you kidding me? He murdered an entire National Guard unit to loot their stuff, lied to the entire town about it. He had something like 30 heads in his fish tanks before Michonne came along. He tried to kill Michonne, take her head as a trophy, get her sword before she had she nothing to do with the prison, for no reason other than she had the nerve to want to leave Woodbury. As for her not talking, isn't that pretty much Rick's modus operandi? Prediction -- they're going to be good friends.
     
  2. GhostDawg

    GhostDawg Member

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    This aint a competition between rick and shane this is just me saying that saying rick is soft is reaching. Hes breaking because his wife died and his son had to put a bullet in her head and he never even got to say bye. Shanes death bothered him but it wasnt the breaking point
     
  3. The Dixon's Mom

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  4. Emdier

    Emdier Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not entirely Michonne's fault. Rick's group is an intimidating presence. They came out of nowhere, managed to do something with a smaller group that the Governor could not and they made a successful attack on Woodbury. Twice. In one night. There is no doubt that the Governor would have been working to take out the newest threat.

    HOWEVER, Michonne did make the situation worse. She acted without really thinking when she slaughtered Penny. She had him RIGHT THERE, eating out of the palm of her hand, and she chose to rub salt in the wounds rather then finish the job like she should have. She took someone dangerous and made him so now he has nothing to lose. There is little worse that she could have done.

    If she was smart, she either would have,
    a. Killed an unarmed Governor.
    b. Used Penny as a bargaining chip.

    Seriously, this WHOLE thing could have been avoided, but she chose the dramatic route rather then the practical one... Which is a tad out of character for her, when you think about it.
     
  5. iamnotarobot

    iamnotarobot Member

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    He was drunk, she hit him and he stopped.
    The Governor sexually assaulted Maggie...he still has more fans than Shane. :zombies_confused:

    I agree that he was wrong for shooting Otis, he should have tried but he calculated the odds of their survival and made a tough decision. It wasn't malicious. They both could have been eaten by zombies and then Carl would have died. He had survivor guilt afterwards because he knew it was wrong, it wasn't like he was celebrating. In fact that was the night he shaved his head and started acting out.

    Michonne killed that man in the cabin to save the group (survival instinct) she could have forced him back in and saved him. Rick locked that prisoner out in the yard to be eaten alive by zombies because he didn't trust him (survival instinct) ...he could have let him back in because he was harmless at that point and hadn't done anything but run for his life after seeing him murder the other prisoner. But Shane killing Otis instead of risking his life saving him to get the medicine to Carl is somehow unforgivable...I guess some lives are conveniently worth more than others when your favourite characters are doing the killing. :zombies_confused:

    But to each their own, everyone has a right to like / dislike the characters ...I just think the reasons most people hate Shane are often excused when other characters do the same thing, if not worse.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. iamnotarobot

    iamnotarobot Member

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    ditto, i was shocked when she killed Penny, that was spiteful...but it was great tv
     
  7. iamnotarobot

    iamnotarobot Member

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    I admire your diplomacy, lol - good point btw
     
  8. Dead man walking

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    I agree with you, Shane was ok, it was the love triangle nonsense which i didn't like which tipped him over the edge. As for his ability to 'get things done' it was second to none really. I miss this type of character in the show and the actor did it well.
     
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  9. Emdier

    Emdier Well-Known Member

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    Agreed with most of it. Shane could have been a fantastic character if it had not been for his obsession with Lori.

    However, I do disagree with his "get things done" ability being second to none. When it came down to it, when it was a REALLY hard choice, (ie. Putting down Sophia) Rick was the one to do it.
     
  10. Dead man walking

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    Ah, I completely disagree - it goes much deeper than that - Shane didn't put down Sophia because I think he was letting eveyone see that he had been right all along - look, there's Sophia, was I right or was I right, but no one listened we should've moved on etc etc, plus he was kind of dealing with his own demon of having shot the fat bloke. Rick stepped up and did it before anyone else simply because he felt it was his fault and no one should have to do it but him - that's why he stepped up. In getting things done, I mean with sense too - not like Rick 'saving cats from trees' and putting people at risk all the time in the 1st two seasons. Shane always did what had to be done, including shooting the fat bloke. So for me I think Shane was great on the REALLY hard choices, I don't see him ever failing. But Rick always overruled what shane wanted to do. For example the kid they pulled off the fence - should've let shane handle it in the beginning. Shane didn't even think about choices - it's us or them, simple, react quick, get it done and bear the consequences. Survival.
     
  11. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    He didn't kick everybody out: He was talking to 'ghosts' - but they didn't know that.
     
  12. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    *She prefers solitude

    The reason she executed that guy was to save herself. She was in just as much danger as the others.

    *I would have offed him too: It was a matter of stealth & survival

    The reason she lead them to Woodbury was for a personal vendetta.

    *Well, he did try to kill her, so he could add her head to his fish tanks. I'd be pissed too 7 she feared he'd do that to Andrea at some point.

    The formula was to gain trust, as well as a peace offering to get inside. She was injured and needed the help. Perhaps a little bit for the baby as well.

    *She's hard, but not cruel or vindictive & would never let a child starve. That's just silly

    Rick has his own reasons for turning away Tyreese. He's feeling like he's failing as a leader and he needs to protect the people that he already has, rather then taking in a bunch of new ones. He even was going to let them stay (He was preparing to agree with Hershel) until his little hallucination showed up, reminding him of exactly why he can't bring in new people. He wasn't being a jerk when he was yelling and waving his gun around, that was a complete mental breakdown.

    *He was not yelling at them: He was yelling at his inner demons, but they didn't know that.

    Rick's decisions are not getting as many people killed as Michonne's. She failed and made things worse. It's her fault we have cah-raaaaazy Governor right now.[/QUOTE]

    *That bastard was already nuts; Just look at his fish-tank collection!!!

    *I think she was raped & beaten at some point & that would make ANYONE overly cautious.
     
    #52 raven n, Aug 23, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  13. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    Th reason the Gov. failed to clear out the prison was because he doesn't encourage the townspeople to be fighters & he only surrounds himself with bullyboys & thugs who can fight, but are not able to work independently of the Gov.'s orders: Rather like how the English soldiers who were 'unable to figure their way out of a wet paper bag without an officer telling them how' during the American revolution: the Gov DIDN'T want smart fighters- only obedient ones, because he was afraid of being overthrown. He didn't have enough autonomous fighters needed to clean out the prison. Ricks group are Spartans: Pretty much every one is a hardened fighter/warrior & able to do things independently of the group if necessary.
    They were just - Better.
     
  14. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    Shane would have fer everyone in the group to Walkers if it meant he could have kept Lori. That includes Carl - if he realized what Shane had become.
     
  15. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    Losing Lori and T-Dog were outside of his control. It was miraculous that he has managed to keep so many people alive (Look at all the people they have nearly lost recently, it's amazing there are still so many of them alive!) and I cannot imagine the way that must wear you down, always being responsible for protecting these people and then to lose two (Almost three!) of them in a single day? Man, that would effect anyone!

    *A person can only take so much stress before they supper an overload. Rick Is suffering from PTSD, it's obvious! What he needs is space, food, rest & emotional support. Surprisingly, it was Michonne who did the most good. I think it's because she's been thru what he's going thru, so she knows how to help him.

    When Shane beat up Ed, that was our real first look into Shane starting to lose it. Sure, he would have stopped the fight before but you cannot honestly believe it was because he hit Carol that Shane went as far as he did. It was because the talk between him and Lori just moments before pissed him off, so he took it out on the best target. Ed just happened to be right there, prepped and ready for a beating... Although even I admit, that scene was awesome.

    *That is perfectly accurate. Thank you.

    Rick is NOT trying to be Shane. Rick always has been, and always will be, Rick. A man attempting to protect his family and hold on to his humanity while doing what he has to.

    *Rick wasn't ruining his life, he was ruining his FANTASY. Shane always admired Ricks life, so when Rick 'died' (as far as Lori knew), Shane took his place; effectively BECOMING Rick. And when Rick was suddenly 'alive' & Lori dropped him like he was contagious & barring him from Carl, Shane's little fantasy unraveled & the frustration, jealousy & resentment started festering inside his mind: spreading & growing like cancer. He didn't snap. Most the things he did were carefully planned & thought out before execution.

    Lori is partly to blame, but Shane HAS to be held accountable for his actions, namely attempting to rape Lori at the CDC and attempting to slaughter his "best friend". Lori never told him to do that, he did that allllll on his own. It can't all be blamed on Lori.
    He did not want to put a bullet in Rick because of his weakness, it was because he was taking Lori and Carl away. Lori handled the situation very poorly and tried to take herself and Carl away cold turkey and in a very rude, mean-spirited way. Rick was ruining his life.

    *Lori had GOOD reason to be pissed. He told her Rick was DEAD & She -grief-stricken & vulnerable (& stupid, but most people are when grieving) - naturally gravitated toward someone both she & Rick cared for, respected & who Carl saw as an uncle. He betrayed their trust & played on her vulnerability to get into her pants. Is her reaction really so surprising? And don't forget, she was most likely pregnant & hormonal at this point. I mean seriously; Is her response really that surprising?

    But see, that is the beauty of The Walking Dead as a whole. Because the characters don't want it to be kill or be killed! They want to hold on to their humanity and that is what makes them so likeable! People like Shane, who kill without hesitation for self preservation, has NO place as a leader of a group. Being a leader sometimes means sacrificing yourself for the greater good, something Rick demonstrates time and time again.
    He did kill Randal because of the threat, but he also used it as an oppurtunity to draw Rick out away from the others so he could kill him. His intentions weren't wholly for survival.

    *Shane would have fed everyone in the Group to the Walkers, if it would have given him a chance at Lori again.
    Shane was a self-indulgent little boy with violent tendencies, who would pick a fight, but left the hard decisions to the people he deemed 'Weak'.

    If they are soooo weak, how have they managed to survive this long? Do you forget how awesome they were in that first season 3 episode, holding tight formation and taking down walkers like a well oiled machine? Now THAT is a team!

    *They are like the Spartans: almost all are blooded warriors, who work as a unit, but can be effective alone too.
    None are 'Weak'.

    No, the Gov. does not have a real army right now. He has a town full of scared, panicky people and a small number of elite men and women who... Really aren't even that great. Do we not remember Haley, one of their "best", not even able to hit a walker at a fairly close distance with her weapon of choice? Wasting arrows and getting flustered even when not in real danger?

    *The Gov has a flock of scared sheep with a few reasonably trained herding dogs, with a spattering of fighters.

    And the Governor's men aren't even all that loyal to him. Most, almost all, of them tried to leave him in Suicide King. They have no idea what the hell their doing.

    *Just the way he liked it.And he instilled fear & subjugation in his people, that's why there was no loyalty.
     
  16. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    Blame the writers for that one.
     
  17. raven n

    raven n Well-Known Member

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    Do you think when the Gov. comes back, he'll pull the whole 'Give Me Michonne & I'll Go Away' BS?
     

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