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Why was Abraham's family scared of him?

Discussion in 'Episode 505 - Self-Help' started by Franklin, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Franklin

    Franklin Member

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    Michael Cudlitz's explanation for Abraham's family's fear of Abraham is very weak. I completely understand them being traumatized because they were raped by people that their trusted. However, they fear towards the father figure doesn't make any damn sense. Why would you fear someone who just protected you from an evil group of people? He obviously was not going to harm his family.

    I studied raped cases and victims when I was in college. Rape is a very damaging crime. Some rape victims continue to fear their rapist and this may result them to not going to court out of fear and psychological trauma. However, I have never heard of any case of the victim fearing his or her protector. I'm sure it has happen, but I'm just not buying it in this case because Abraham is their father. It's not like some stranger saved them and he has to earn their trust through time.

    I think this would have been better written as the "trusted" neighbors raping and kill his family instead of his family leaving to live under a tree.
     
  2. RarreKZ

    RarreKZ Well-Known Member

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    I got the impression that he was all bloody and still shaking from the beating.
     
  3. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how Cudlitz explained it, but my interpretation was that Abraham's family were terrified by his violence and saw him as a monster. Regardless of Abraham doing it to protect them, resorting to such violent methods simply scared them and made them fear that Abraham had gone crazy and would turn on them.

    The point is that Abraham's actions, although ultimately intended to keep his family safe, scared them enough that they would rather abandon him and take their chances outside than risk him hurting them.
     
  4. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    We don't know the family dynamic before that event happened. Abraham may have had a history of inability to control his temper, and/or control issues, and his wife was already becoming concerned. After witnessing him kill 4 men in a rage [even men that raped her], she may have felt that he was losing control and a danger. The fact that he was there father may have added to their fears.
     
  5. EZD

    EZD Well-Known Member

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    I think the Raping happened after they fled from Abe from fear of what they had just seen him do?

    He killed a guy with a can of soup and his wife was terrified of the Abe she sees.

    So in the middle of the night they sneak away and instead of being safe,then they are attacked by the neighbors and others they thought they could trust.

    So Abe sort of blames himself for driving them away and towards their deaths at the hands of thises he thought were friends.
     
  6. Franklin

    Franklin Member

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    That simply doesn't make sense. If a group of people raped you in the Walking Dead then your protector is going to kill them. What other choices did he have in this type of world? If he didn't kill them, then his ex-friends would have killed him and his family. Who in the hell will say "Oh no my daddy is crazy for killing the people who raped me and mommy"?
     
  7. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    If could make perfect sense depending on the history of the family dynamic. Abraham may have been slowly losing control for a long time, and his wife was all too aware of it.
     
  8. Franklin

    Franklin Member

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    Nope! It doesn't make sense. As I said Abraham didn't have any other options. If he didn't kill the rapist then they would have killed him and his family. Which option seems better to you?


    However, people in general are extremely pissed off when a person is raped. There was a recent case (I think in Texas) with a father shooting his daughter's rapist. He caught the rapist in the act and took action to protect his daughter. I believe he was not charged with murder and his daughter was very supportive of him.

    Abraham's actor also said his family never saw him in a violent manner.
     
  9. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    I guess when you were studying rape in college you missed the class on family dynamic, control issues, and domestic fear.
     
  10. Bernadette

    Bernadette Well-Known Member

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    I think Neuro is dead on about the family dynamic - especially our lack of knowledge of it. I also get the impression that this scene was close to the beginning of the ZA, so brutality may not have become a way of life for the wife and kids just yet. Then seeing Abe beat those "friends" to death with a can, covered in blood and shaking with rage, they were pretty freaked. First they are raped and then see him act in a brutal manner....I can see how they may want to find an alternative way of living. Just my opinion.
     
  11. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    Based on the clothes and the setting, I assumed it was early days. Back before the kind of violence that Abraham resorted to was acceptable and necessary to survive.

    If the same thing were to happen in the present setting, they probably would have been more understanding of his actions. But it seems like society had only collapsed fairly recently in those flashbacks, which would mean that they were holding on to their past morals, probably even having hope of order being restored. Obviously rape isn't okay in this society, but neither is the kind of violence that Abraham resorted to. It's pretty understandable that it would have scared them to see their father/husband transform into a ruthless killer. To see him return, shaking and covered in blood, their imaginations must have run wild with the possibilities of what he'd done and whether he could control it.

    And violence just disturbs people. Even now, a few years into the apocalypse, Glenn, Maggie and Tara were still shocked by the violence that Rick, Abe, Sasha and Michonne used towards Gareth and the hunters. They understood it, but they were still shocked by it.
     
  12. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Its not about which option seems better to me, its about how a wife, who could have a growing concern for the mental wellbeing of her much stronger husband, would view things, which is what you seem to be almost deliberately not understanding. Again, we don't know the history of the marriage. A wife doesn't necessarily have to witness a previous violent outburst like the one Abraham had that day to have a growing concern. There's many reasons a spouse can psychology start to fear their husband. Just saying, we don't know.
     
    #12 Neuropyramidal, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
  13. Cat'sMeow

    Cat'sMeow Member

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    Well if he treated his wife like he treats the group he is presently with I would have left him as well. In the last episode we witnessed his lack of reasoning and that under extreme pressure he won't listen to anyone. Even if he is physically strong enough to protect someone, a rash mentality will still get you in terrible situations or killed.
     
  14. sargentcrunch

    sargentcrunch Member

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    Yeah in last nights episode we see what happens when he gets angry. He even pushed Rosita right to the ground, he might have a history of anger issues and, maybe not hit, but pushed his wife before. Like everyone else is saying, we don't know the family dynamic, maybe seeing him beat 4-5 men to death with his bare hands and a can of soup was 'the last straw'.
     
  15. Franklin

    Franklin Member

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    Michael aka Abraham's actor explained why Abraham doesn't listen to anyone. He stopped listening to people because Eugene's lie was his last hope in the world. He didn't want anyone taking that away from him.

    I understand everything just fine. I just don't agree with your opinion on the matter.

    Abusive men are generally willing to accept other people abusing their family. It's a dangerous cycle that runs through many families. It's very unlikely that Abraham abused his family as Michael said Abraham's family has never seen him go to work or what he did as a solider.

    Seeing your husband kill your and your children's rapist and saying that's the "last straw" is pure insanity. What did you want him to do say hello?
     
  16. Kilroy was here

    Kilroy was here Well-Known Member

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    Because he used a can of soup to bludgeon a man. If it had been a can of peaches it would have been okay.
     
  17. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Really, because from your OP you seem to understand nothing.

    Also, as was already explained to you by 3 or 4 people, family dynamics are more complex and subtle than you seem to understand. He wouldn't have needed to have violently physically abused his family in the past for them to fear him.
     
  18. Walker Caravan

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    I think showing it kinda messed it up but had to get the Eugene arc in there somehow I guess. Much better the way the comic handled it in a conversation, just kinda describing it. Then your brain can fill in the gaps as it wants.
     
  19. Spidey

    Spidey Active Member

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    I know rape has horrible affects on somoenes mind but cmon, if you are in Zombie freakin Apocalypse, you would really leave your dad/husband after he killed your rapists and risk getting bit by zombies? I don't buy that shit. These isn't a peaceful society we're talking about. I really find it a stretch of my imagination that someone who was just raped would rather take their chances getting raped by more strangers outside or bitten by blood sucking monsters outside then to be with the father/husband who just protected you. Yes in real life they might be scared of him and run away, but that's because you aren't exactly going to randomly get raped outside in broad daylight in your suburban neighborhood, but in a ZA I can't believe you wouldn't be even more fearful of the outside.

    Fearing Abraham is believable. Fearing him more than zombies and rapists outside is unrealistic to me.

    The other issue isn't that they left, which I find somewhat believable if I try really hard, my issue is that not one of them uttered a word to him about his horrid acts at least explain to him why they left in the note. That is the part I don't find believable.

    They were so scared of his brutality that they found monsters outside less fearsome, so much that they didn't utter a word to him. Yeah OK. Sure Abraham was being violent, but you don't think those zombies biting people's necks and eyeballs outside are more violent? lol
     
    #19 Spidey, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
  20. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    This is actually typically the exact opposite of their psychological profile. Those who abuse domestically are typically very possessive, controlling and jealous. They would rage at the discovery of another man in any kind of contact with their wife, abusive or not.
     

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