I'm assuming that Madison feels she's lost Nick to this world the same way he was lost to addiction prior. If you've ever dealt with an addict there comes a time when you just can't anymore, not because you don't want to, you just can't.

..Madison and Celia...why would you kill her when you can just gather your family and leave with Strand on a luxury yacht? It's not like Celia is the only one there, there are many others inside the compound to deal with in the aftermath. I don't understand what Madison's gameplan was here.

 

Seems to me Celia didn't look that scared, either because she honestly believes the dead won't hurt her... And it is possible, if the dead are well-fed they won't attack right away... Granted she wasn't exactly all smiles but I too would have made sure she wasn't getting out and I mean made sure.

Because if she does get out, they will likely have to deal with her again.

Not real sure about Nick, what his track seems to be...

 

At that point, she was still fighting to keep Nick. She thought he wouldn't leave willingly with the group, so her only option was to kill off his new addiction. Right?

 

I agree with the motive, just not sure how she thought that would play out. At that point, wasn't Madison pretty set on staying at the compound? Killing off the head looney still leaves you with a compound full of her looney followers who would most likely want some vengeance.

 

I wrote her off as a mom when she broke into a high school to steal drugs for her son LOL

 

I thought Madison effectively killled Celia and the reason we didn't see Celia when Daniel came along with the gasoline was that she was eaten down to the bones by all the walkers clustered around her. I admired Madison for her cool, calm, duplicitous murder of Celia. She should be on a CIA team or something. She did it to save Nick. She was right.

Unfortunately, Strand's diagnosis of Nick was correct. He's an addict in search of a fantasy story who, delusionally believes, he is invincible. He hates killing but he just signed up to tour with "the dead" whose only function on earth is to kill the living anything-- man, woman, child or beast -- and eat it.

I don't know what else Madison could have done to save Nick. I cannot imagine her heartbreak after all these years of protecting sheltering, rehabilitating and struggling to save her son. But now--the power of "Mom" is not enough to save Nick from delusion.

Fortunately for Madison, Strand forcibly abducted her so maybe, just maybe, Nick will survive until he comes to his senses and Mom, Strand, Travis or somebody will show up and rescue him. That will not stop Madison from crying for quite a while-- whether anyone else ever sees her cry or not. Failing to save a child from destruction --especially self-destruction -- is beyond a mother's worst night mare

 

Celia was the person poisoning Nick's mind with delusions of "this is what comes next." Celia is a mass murderer. She wasn't going to let a potential acolyte like Nick just leave. It's not clear to me that all the employees agree with Celia. If they did, why were they tossing dirt, in respect, on Tom Abigail's grave? I'm with Madison on this one-- Celia put delusional ideas into Nick's head and now he thinks he's invincible. His view of things -- that the "dead" or whatever he and Celia are calling them-- are the new,favorable "what comes next", superior to living humans is ludicrous. The " walking dead" kill all the time; living humans kill only sometimes. Celia's view and Nick's view are psychotic.

Madison was trying her best to save her son so he could live the human life which humans are meant to live. Celia was trying her best to made Nick one of her deadie pets or deadie pet herders.

 

Worst mother award? What do you do with someone like Nick?

Has anyone here ever dealt with a drug addict and their psychology?

An addict either wants to fight to heal themselves and reach reality, or not. If it's the latter nothing can be done to help them.

 

Reminds of so many real world delusional philosophies that people follow. Something an addict would not be able to properly process.

Right - The zombie's have a shred of life in them functioning at an instinctive level akin to an insect, or less actually as insects hunt their prey and defend themselves with great precision, but are not sentient.

If giant insects were around en mass and instinctively trying to eat humans and any other living mammal, there would be delusional people insisting that humans were the evil ones for killing the giant insects - rather than attempting a "more humane" solution to it.

These people would be deluded and self loathing. Not much you can do for them. Recovering addicts sometimes flock to self loathing philosophies.

 

What was she supposed to do, pick him up and put him in the truck? Take his toys away and put him on time out? He's a grown man. And if she'd spent any more time outside the truck arguing with him, they could have all been killed.


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Yes-- and if you watch it again, Strand physically dragged Madison away. I would have improved on this aspect of this episode only by showing Madison's face running unstoppable tears as Strand pulled her away or after he got her in the truck. Anybody who has ever experienced this kind of grief knows you cannot control your body's response to it. If they did show that, I missed it. .

 

Yes, as tink had said "this show contained some of the worst, dead-eyed acting and the most boring story ever."
Zvivor, your suggestion would have been a huge improvement! IF they are going to get any emotions out of us, they are going to have to show more emotion themselves.

 

If she had not gone back for the drugs Nick most likely would have died". Heroine withdrawal untreated almost always results in death.

I applaud her for her courage and intelligence to do so. If my child was in danger of dying from withdrawal, you bet your sweet ass I would do the same.

Unfortunately she is not big enough to knock Nick out and drag his ass into the truck.

Nick is a heroine addict which means when things get tough he will be looking for a way to "drop out", as heroine is the drug of choice for those who can't deal with real life so they "turn on and tune out".
Nick in my book is a write-off, a waste of time.

 

Exactly. The guy is 19. And there were walkers coming. Strand had to physically drag Madison to the truck. If Madison would have tried making a struggle while he was walking through the mini-horde, the walkers would have detected both of them.

Death from heroin withdrawal is actually the exception, not the rule. You're more likely to die from alcohol withdrawal. The most common reason to die during Heroin withdraw is suicide. Although more rarely, you can die from seizure activity and cardiovascular things.

Having said that, I agree with you that Maddie did the right thing. Why allow him to take a risk and withdrawal, if she had an option to treat it. This OP is coming from the moon.

 

I was thinking about this more, and I think that scene was supposed to contrast with the scenes between Madison and Celia. Madison was being very mother-bear-like when it came to trying to protect Nick from Celia's philosophy about the walkers. First she interrupted their conversation to tell Celia flat-out that Nick is "impressionable" and easily led astray, so she shouldn't fill his head with ideas. And then later she actually locked her up, away from Nick.

But then, when it really came down to it, she couldn't protect Nick from himself. There comes a time when a kid has to make their own choices, no matter what a parent might want to do to stop it. Nick made choices about heroin, and now he's choosing how to fit into the post-apocalyptic world.

And, as I was writing the above, it just dawned on me that there's a parallel to Travis and Chris. Travis has actually left the group to be with Chris and try to stop him from making his own bad choices. However, as we've seen with Madison, ultimately Chris has to come to his senses on his own. Travis can't protect him forever.

 

I think Nick will survive because Daniel isn't really dead. He might have a come to Jesus meeting..or at the least a "hey these dead guys will kill your ass in a heavy rain" meeting then.