She is so treasured by so many, that also ups her odds of survival compared to medieval babies born into a warring zone.

We had a thread earlier about which characters would be the worst to lose. Can't believe I didn't think to put Judith on my list.

 

So no one actually read my post because I'm a newbie? http://www.walkingdeadforums.com/fo...plaints-criticisms-129802-13.html#post4990612
I really thought I had some interesting thoughts about the show. Well, back to the ol' drawing board...

 

• Cholera is an acute diarrhoeal disease that can kill within hours if left untreated.
• Researchers have estimated that there are 1.4 to 4.3 million cases, and 28 000 to 142 000 deaths worldwide1 due to cholera every year.
• Up to 80% of cases can be successfully treated with oral rehydration salts.
• Provision of safe water and sanitation is critical to control cholera and other waterborne diseases.
• Oral cholera vaccines are an additional way to control cholera, but should not replace conventional control measures

I don't see our team carrying bleach, only we can assume boiling their water.
Water is not enough to rehydrate
The sudden presence of large numbers of dead bodies in the disaster-affected area may heighten concerns of disease outbreaks (2), despite the absence of evidence that dead bodies pose a risk for epidemics after natural disasters (3). When death is directly due to the natural disaster, human remains do not pose a risk for outbreaks (4). Dead bodies only pose health risks in a few situations that require specific precautions, such as deaths from cholera (5) or hemorrhagic fevers (6). Recommendations for management of dead bodies are summarized in the Table.

Despite these facts, the risk for outbreaks after disasters is frequently exaggerated by both health officials and the media. Imminent threats of epidemics remain a recurring theme of media reports from areas recently affected by disasters, regardless of attempts to dispel these myths (2,3,7).


Water Related Communicable Dieases
Cholera
Hepatitis A, and E
Leptospirosis

Then if you find a community and live together in close quarters you get:
Neisseria meningitidis meningitis
Acute respiratory infections (Fun fact, there's more cases of Tuberculosis in London than in many developing nations)

Let's not forget the return of:
Malaria
Dengue Fever
Tetanus (your vaccine only lasts 10 years)

Any small cut can lead to infection, antibiotics are rare and access to medical treatment may be non existent
Sanitation is now nearly nonexistent, you must bury or burn your waste. Hazardous materials such as feces can and will lead to disease in large quantities.

Sleeping outside? Don't forget ticks, mites, and other lovely insect borne diseases!


Max Brooks is right, dying of cholera is much, much more likely scenario in a zombie apocalypse than being eaten by a zombie. But it's no where near as fun to read or watch.

 

Hello, [MENTION=96872]Mandylion[/MENTION], and welcome to the forum!

I interpreted Michonne and Heath's conversation less as Michonne nagging and more as her reassuring Heath that her group wasn't as ruthless and barbaric as they appeared to be. Michonne exploited that conversation for good measure: to explain to Heath what one has to sacrifice in order to survive in this world.

That conversation and Annie and David's deaths may have powerful developments for our group. When Heath stared at his blood-soaked reflection in the creek, he finally understood Michonne's earlier words; he finally got it. Heath's epiphany may benefit the group later if the Alexandrians question the failures of Rick's plan and the subsequent deaths. Rick hasn't exactly painted himself in a positive light with the Alexandrians. If Heath vouches for the group's bravery and efforts and informs his fellow Alexandrians about the reality outside their walls, both sides may begin to really trust, learn from, and understand one another and finally unite as an actual community.

And yes, Michonne, Heath, and Scott not mercy killing David upset me too. His screams were haunting and terrifying. I knew Michonne's near-miss and her failure to bring David home to his wife probably prioritized her thoughts more than euthanizing David, but her inaction still upset.

 

I agree with [MENTION=84612]Lindigo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=92691]Zalanii[/MENTION] that Judith's survival rate is a bit grim. Infants and children in less developed countries die from preventable diseases simply because their families live in unsanitary conditions or don't have access to medical care or clean water. Our crew has encountered many of these very factors.

An outbreak rapidly swept through the prison because of less than stellar sanitary conditions and inaccessibility to the necessary medications. They constantly worried about contamination of their water supply. While on the road, sanitation and ready access to food and clean water were even harder to obtain with the ubiquitous walker threat. Rick and company discussed their hunger and thirst several times throughout the latter halves of seasons 4 and 5, and Carl's willingness to eat dog food in season 3's "Seed" implied that the group didn't have a steady food supply. So malnutrition and a low birth weight would have factored against Judith's survival rate, just like they do for infants and children now.

Hand washing has significantly decreased the spread of communicable diseases, but most people don't currently wash their hands as effectively or as frequently as they should. I doubt people would reliably maintain proper hygiene techniques post-apocalypse. And the show evidenced this when Rick left that grimy paw print on Deanna's white wall and when all that dirt and grime pooled at Rick's feet as he showered.

But I think we're all forgetting the number one reason why Judith shouldn't have survived: she's blond.

 

@Mandylion, I remember reading your post and enjoying it. I noticed, too, what a great name you have. Sorry, I wish I had posted to you.

Editing to say, I went back to look, and I did respond, I just didn't quote you so you didn't see it. Sorry about that. This is what I wrote just below your post:

"And them staring from the opposite side of the fence when the walkers were yumming up the guy just minutes later." Thanks for the giggle.

And Welcome! Totally agree with you.

But, I just watched it again today, and the scene of the survivors watching the walkers yumming up David looks shorter now. Anyone else have that experience?

 

@Zalanii, The last cholera outbreak in the U.S. was in 1911. I don't know if that's because it's fairly well eradicated here or only because now the first people infected can be treated before it gets out of hand.

To this day, cholera, an infection of the small intestine, still affects between three and five million people and causes nearly 130,000 deaths a year worldwide (CDC, 2011). However, the last documented outbreak in the United States was in 1911 (Mayo Clinic, 2011). Before then, there were a number of outbreaks, but none worse than the Second Cholera Pandemic of the mid-1800s. The pandemic began in India, and then swiftly spread across the globe via trade routes. Settlers travelling along the Mormon and Oregon Trails brought cholera to the United States from East to West, killing an estimated 150,000 Americans (Beardslee, 2000).
http://www.healthline.com/health/worst-disease-outbreaks-history#Cholera4
That link shows the 10 worst disease outbreaks in the U.S. from the small pox epidemic in 1633 to the whooping cough outbreak here in California in 2010. I'm still getting PSAs re whooping cough.

Judith has a lot of hurdles to face to survive. I had several of the childhood illnesses that we vaccinate for now. I was at least five before I had whooping cough, and I sailed through that one easily. With measles, I remember praying to die. I think Judith is more at risk from something as simple as a cut that gets infected or a cold that turns to pneumonia. But their water supply when they are on the road will continue to be unsettling--remember watching how to strain swampy water.

It only takes one bad bug to take her down.

Editing to say sorry about the font size situation. I made it a little better, but I finally gave up.

 

I wish they had put David out of his misery, I can understand the Alexandrians panicking, but I would have thought Michonne would have had more composure and mercy even in an extreme situation as she is trying to fit in now.

 

I think you might be right and that sort of hints at why she does not put him down too?
Is it more helpful to ease his pain but look like a killer to some people or let him die on his own and not seem so bloodthirsty to some people?

Like a lot of choices on the show there are often no good ones and either way she is cruel and ruthless in someones eyes.

 

Probably more to the point is that if she has plot armor she's fine. If she doesn't? Tough. If the show is having trouble killing Glenn off though, I doubt they'll go after Judith.

Maybe a better way to phrase what I think Judith's risk is is that there's no reason for a child in a VERY rural environment in general to have that high of a risk, given that the people in their group *should* know what her biggest risks are and how to prevent them. That said, if they aren't practicing them now, and Judith dies of a preventable disease, you can bet that Maggie and the next mothers won't make the same mistake and will be raising their kids in as sterile a way as possible.

 

http://infectiousdiseases.about.com...1ffbae56-98cb-4997-90bf-b1ed8f5f666d-0-ab_msb

Cholera prevention: don't defecate in or near streams. Wash your hands after you go to the bathroom and before cooking food. Boil your water. Make sure others in your group do the same.These = no cholera outbreak.

 

A very important thing at some point will be how to make soap, although I'm sure for YEARS they will be able to scrounge supplies. Here's a wilderness survival article on making soap in the wild, and if you want to make some for fun, one using your kitchen as well!


http://wildernessarena.com/skills/f...make-homemade-soap-in-wilderness-for-survival

http://www.diynatural.com/how-to-make-soap-2/

 

A case of a girl in rural Oregon getting bubonic plague from a flea bite was reported today. Just a very few cases each year, so odd timing while we are discussing this.

 

That's the lovely predicament about information: knowledge is power, but application is key. As knowledgeable as our group may be about bettering Judith's odds, they don't actively anticipate, prevent, and minimize the hurdles to her survival. I noted several examples, in my previous reply, that strongly evidenced this observation. Let's face it: when it comes to Judith's health, our group hasn't exactly been steadfast practitioners of sanitation, hygiene, forethought, etc.

I attribute Judith's survival so far to that strong Grimes family plot armor. I don't worry about Judith's odds in Alexandria because the ASZ readily implements and provides easy access to the medical and environmental resources advantageous to infant, child, and adolescent survival and well-being.

This isn't surprising. Incidences of bubonic plague are on the rise this year. Multiple cases have been reported in Arizona, California, New Mexico, Utah, and a few other states.

 

The was a talking head interview with Danai, on TTD about this scene. She said she had to clear the air and set things with Heath, because he needed to know that he really DIDNT know what it was like to out there, like their group. She also had to have his trust in her to escape safely.

welcome to the forum!

 

I have to say, if the writers go this route in order to make Glenn's "death" plausible, that - to me - would be the ultimate cop-out. To leave people hanging on the edge of their seats, only to turn it into an "it was all a dream" sequence would be just...so...wrong.

Did no one learn anything from Bobby's non-death on Dallas?

Omigod!!!!Bobbbbbyyyyyy!!!!! He's DEAD!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!


Oh, wait...

 

Uh, I must admit that this Dallas reference just went way over my head. I'm sorry, I'm too young for Dallas. I've heard of the show, but I've never watched it.

Anyway, I should clarify. Gimple explaining the scene as a hallucination would definitely be a letdown, but what intrigues me about the hallucination scenario isn't the hallucination itself, but its implication and consequences. Glenn's been pretty solid throughout the show, and even when he has cracked, he quickly reassembled the pieces. His own subconscious is questioning the usefulness of his idea about saving people. That realization, compared to all the previous tests, may give Glenn more pause about his humanitarian ways, especially if Maggie is pregnant.

 

I agree that delving into Glenn's psyche would be interesting, but not by introducing it into the storyline this way...not with such a controversial cliffhanger. While it would be a tempting opportunity to lead Glenn down that pathway, I'm willing to bet that for most of the viewing audience, the reaction would be nothing short of outrage at Gimple et al.'s story line. You don't put a prominent character into a situation where it seems he has met his demise, only to turn around and exclaim "It was all a dream" (or momentary psychological breakdown). Mind you, unless the writers do come up with an impressively convincing way to have Glenn survive this mess, or unless this truly was Glenn's final moments, then they have - imo - written themselves into a corner that will have a huge audience backlash. Actually this seems almost the polar opposite of "If Daryl dies, we riot"; it appears to be verging on the edge of "If Glenn lives, we riot".

Yes, my age slip is definitely exposed with the Dallas reference. Suffice to say, it was one of the worst writing blunders of a wildly popular nighttime 'soap' drama ever done, back the 80's.

 

I think we agree about the same thing. I'm just noting what I could enjoy about one possible resolution to this (beep) storm Gimple et al. have created. And I could really only enjoy it if it were a substantial, extended story arc for Glenn (e.g., this near death haunts him so entirely, he resigns from supply runs for a while). Gimple can resolve Glenn's "death" any number of ways, but I doubt I will thoroughly enjoy each resolution's merits primarily because of how Gimple wrote and handled Glenn's predicament, namely his statement on Talking Dead, delaying the outcome, etc.

If Glenn is dead, I won't be able to fully grieve for him or salute the show, for unceremoniously killing a heroic character, because of Gimple's teasing us and forgetting Glenn's quick-wittedness. (Glenn saved himself and a then-naïve Rick, in season 1, so why wouldn't a now-seasoned Glenn, even with a bumbling Nicholas in tow, not notice or consider the stairs as means of escape?) If Glenn hallucinated his demise and/or eventually escapes unscathed, either by his own hands or someone else's, I can't fully delight in his survival or completely appreciate the hallucination's ensuing psychological and behavioral effects: again because Gimple played us and because I will perceive the rescue as highly convenient and the hallucination reveal as something of a letdown.

 

It wasn't Glenn who died but his evil twin Sven. Glenn is safe at home in Alexandria watching reruns of Who's the Boss and drinking Ovaltine.