Because there is a difference between a teenager who's being led around by an army of assholes who left him for dead, oppose to a fully grown mindful man who can't keep his mouth shut and started a dangerous rukus on his property.

And make no mistake about it, I do think he, will without realizing it, allow dangerous things for his family to stick around, after all, he let Shane stay didn't he? In his mind, he agrees with much of Rick's decisions and does not perceive them as dangerous for him, whether they are or are not is besides the point.

My point was, if Shane tried another stunt like he did again, Hershel has already crossed threshold, and would likely shoot him next time around. Using a teenage impaled boy as an example of why not, is in my opinion a weak argument.

 

It obviously wasn't as dangerous as you are making it out to be, they survived it didn't they?

All they had to do was what Rick did in the first place, which was push the kid's leg off the poll. It didn't start becoming risky til Hershel started nay saying that idea and caused a discussion about it.

 

All I know is I am starting the car well before the dead get even close to me. Sure would suck to make a last minute dash and escape only to find out the battery is dead.

When they were trying to figure out what to do with the kid, I was like start the car! Start the car....

 

Wow! Hershel was awesome and so bad ass. It is always the quiet ones that are the best shooters. Don't **** With Hershel - that would be you Shane. I would love some background on Hershel.

 

I liked that scene too and how you just brought the western parallel into. That was what I thought as well.It did remind me of that genre.

 

I disagree completely. Human beings are social animals for a reason. We work better in groups. Food and defense. Being a murderous ass (like Shane) is not good for group cohesion. Plus, being good does not mean weak. Rick can make hard choices. That's why people follow him. He's smart and good. Those qualities WOULD help you survive.

+Obviously he thought he had enough time to get the kid off the fence. And he was right.

 

Along with the great character, Scott Wilson is doing a great job acting

 

Jacob, you do realize this show has SERIOUS plausibility issues? That darkness fell not 5 seconds after Rick shot the two men in the bar in broad daylight? That in that darkness Rick had no way of knowing that the person on the roof was a kid? That, as the kid fell off the roof and behind the truck in the dark, Rick had no way of knowing whether he'd been impaled on a fence and not attacked by zombies? That by running off and disappearing into that darkness and saying NOTHING to his two comrades he gambled with all of their lives? That while they had time to get the boy off the fence it still seemed to take them all night to drive the three miles back to the farm? If you DO realize these facts then you should also realize the fact that though they "obviously" had time on the show to get the kid off the fence that is actually immaterial to the discussion as to whether or not Rick was foolish to do it.

Shane, by my count, has killed ONE person. A person who he believed at the time of the deed to be a clear impediment to his returning to the farm safely. Rick has killed two. Herschel one. So, who is the "murderous ass"?

Only ONE person is actually following Rick- Lori. That says a lot; his one true follower is his wife with all her problems. Andrea is probably behind Shane; Herschel and his people do their own thing, as does Carl. The rest aren't given enough face time to ascertain their mindset. This group is together because they are together and there's a ZA- not that a viewer would not be forgiven for not knowing that.

Rick displays NO foresight (taking them all to the door of the CDC so the group was trapped if the doors never opened). He doesn't seem to place a high value on his life or the lives of others, including his family, choosing instead to do the "right" thing (which, if considered as a person on the ground rather than a television viewer is often the most foolish). He either has no understanding of or appreciation for the level of danger that exists (repeatedly leaves the group to undertake high risk, low reward missions).

I'm not quite sure how a person considers these leadership qualities. If Rick behaved this way during a blizzard he wouldn't have the respect of his family or neighbors. He's doing so during the Zombie Apocalypse.

 

Greyone. Shhhh. You are an unintelligent viewer and are not supposed to notice those kinds of things.:zombies_lol:

 

Thanks Bassman. Too many issues covered to respond to them all. Shane is not a good leader. And contrary to what Greyone said, everybody follows Rick except for Andrea in the last few episodes. For me, the bottom line is that Rick looks out for the group. Shane does not. He even said it. Everyone is expendable but Lori and Carl.

Greyone, Rick may not be always right, but I believe his instincts are closer to correct than anyone else'. And obviously he is a leader. Shane is dangerous, and if he were running around like a loose cannon in my group, endangering all, his days would be numbered. Obviously that is the way the writers are heading. And fwiw, if it weren't for Rick, Hershel and Glenn would be dead already. He did save them all in the bar. And as Bassman was saying, and the title of the show intimates, it's the survivors that are in danger of becoming the walking dead and losing their humanity.

Being a leader means being able to lead. Rick does. He looks out for the group. Shane looks out for himself.

 

Ahhh, Bassman, now you HAVE hit upon the fundamental question TWD should provoke readers to consider: what makes us HUman? Man is just an animal- but a HUman is something so much more.

Jacob- we have no way of knowing what instincts Rick might be operating with- that is a relative observation. You see a born leader with some minor flaws but a good heart. I see a man who-all his talk aside- I'd be looking at sideways (as Daryl seems to) everytime he opened his mouth. If I were on the ground with him I'd only be able to see the actual and possible outcomes of his decisions and so far they've led to half the people I hit the quarry with gone. Good intentions coupled with piss poor execution get more people killed in crisis situations than actual neglect or even bad intention. If I was the type of person who ceded responsibility for my life to another I'd go with Shane, simply because he is RIGHT NOW about survivial FIRST and FOREMOST. His ONLY goal is in staying alive. Hopefully there will be time in the future for us to consider our humanity but now is not the time.

Jacob, I think you may be considering Rick a leader based upon the cues of the show. He was the first person we saw and we seem to be following his story. And, before the ZA, he was a cop. Some are conditioned to bestow authority upon a uniform. But I don't even know if the show is depicting Rick as a leader so much as many of the viewers. Herschel never heeded Rick until the bar scene and neither did his people. In fact, Herschel told Rick to come with him to fetch a zombie from the swamp and Rick went. He in fact was bringing that zombie back to ostensibly lock in the barn knowing how those with him felt about that. Shane has shown remarkable restraint by not publicly chastising Rick. There are no clues as to what T-Dawg, Daryl, or even Dale actually think. They seem to just be going along because there is no other alternative. The Hispanic family left- apparently they thought they could do as well if not better on their own than with Rick's group. Andrea makes her own decisions. And, in truth, Rick does not seem to be directing anyone: they seem to just have fallen into their respective roles. Glenn follows Rick but I get the impression he would follow any of the stronger men and possibly one or two of the women.

Rick is not "looking out for the group". It is inarguable that he often and repeatedly puts himself and all of those with him in mortal danger and he does not even seem to realize it when he does. As a television viewer this makes for great tv. But if one was on the ground with Rick...(shaking my head). This does not make Rick "bad". But it definitely doesn't make him a leader.

 

Greyone, I think it is wonderful that people can watch the same show and take away such a different perspective. To me, Rick looks out for the group, and Shane does not. He outright said that. He looks out for Lori and Carl. Sure he'll defend others, (and well) but if they get in the way or slow things down, they'd be Otis. Rick time and again does look out for the group. Meryl, Sophia, Hershel, etc. If someone is in danger, he acts humanely. Shane considers himself, Lori and Carl. And to "what degree the others get in the way". Before, when I talked about humans being social animals, I mentioned that because I feel that Rick's behavior engenders that far more than Shane's. And being social animals gives us an edge on survival.

The thing about being a leader is getting people to act as a team. I don't even think it's arguable who does that better.

 

Glad that Herschel claimed to know about firearms, wish they would not make him look bad holding the weapon up near his head with finger on the trigger. Good way to shoot self in head. Weapon should be pointed were eyes are, but its tv. Little alchohol brings out the fire in Herschel. He has recovered even thogh he now knows what the walkers do.