There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.



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What a crowded non sequitur. I'm no historian, but I have to suppose you mean no modern nation (off the top of my head, one or more of the South American or African empires possibly thrived on continual warfare, though evidently none of them 'benefited' in the long run). As for 'benefitting', you'll have to define your terms. If you mean no nation got what you have decided is right for a nation, then we still need to know what you are bringing into this argument. By instance, I don't suppose you mean 'at no instant', because the third reich did ok if you look at isolated instances within their bout of prolonged warfare. What's 'prolonged' by the way? How long is pro-longed? Which nations didn't benefit from a prolonged war with Hitler and his axis? I'd say all of them did, but you'll have your point of view too. Maybe 'prolonged' means 'allowed to continue longer than necessary'? We'll get back to that.

You mean, then, at a best guess:
"No modern nation, apart from all of them (including Germany and Japan), benefited (especially Germany and Japan) from a war that went on a bit."

Holding on to that WW2 analogy, perhaps 'prolonged' means 'missing the opportunity to end it at one stroke by cutting the head off the snake'. Setting aside the lengths I've already gone to to explain why that doesn't actually work in this situation, take note that it was tried on Hitler by his own people, several times. That didn't work either. Wishing and doing are two different things.

But having unpacked all that's wrong with your non sequitur, we're still left with a non sequitur. There is no nation. There is Rick's alliance of tribes - a nation can be built on such a thing, has been, many times in many places - but we know that Rick does not want a prolonged war. We also know that shooting Negan would prolong the war. You need the Saviors to surrender. Killing Negan leaves you with his massive war machine in the hands of some other ****, and a lot of lead gets thrown about and a lot of good people die in a needlessly prolonged war.

Again, if you missed it in my other posts, Rick's promise to kill Negan does not include the clause 'at the earliest opportunity'. There is a bigger picture. It needs to be made clear to everyone that the Saviors game is over, that the world has changed and it no longer belongs to thugs and bandits. That there is law again, in the shape of lawman Rick. So, taking Negan alive, accepting his surrender, lowering him in front of his men (and women) - that's how you end a war. Just shooting people willy-nilly prolongs a war (I'll agree that Iraq and Afghanistan haven't benefited at all from that prolonged war, and yet didn't the snake's head get cut clean off and tossed unceremoniously into the ocean?)

 

Still no. It would make no sense to 'take him out'. I've laid out at length why that is so. Do, please, explain why you think it isn't. Bear mind that 'I think it isn't' isn't an explanation, it's a repetition. In their real world, in the real world, in any world except that of an unfettered imagination, 'taking Negan out' is not even a solution, let alone the required solution.

 

I may have to rewatch the episode, but wasn't Rick trying to kill Neagan while everyone else were shooting windows?


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And yet you've not laid out anything at all...apart from insults.

Here's a thing...Episode 2, no sign of Negan. We know where he is of course...but do any of his people? To any and all other saviors, he's as good as dead. Those inside the Sanctuary have every reason to suppose him dead. The snake is, albeit temporarily, sans head. And yet they keep fighting, and our team keep getting shot. So tell me, what would have been different about episode 2 if Rick had shot Negan with a magic bullet rather than snapping him with a Polaroid?

For my part, I'll continue to point out where you're wrong. Given your lead, I may also laugh about it.

I've met your imagination...

 

I mentioned that fact.

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Perhaps I was too reticent and you missed the point. Rick WAS trying to kill Neagan.


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In my opinion, part of the plan was to take out Neagan if possible, but kind of to jiggeryqua's point, staging it as a casualty of war and not an execution. Keeping in mind the attempt was part of the larger plan to trap Neagan's forces with the walker herd. Would that distinction make any difference to winning over hearts and minds? I don't know, but I'm trying to reconcile not taking a sniper shot vs giving a countdown but opening fire on "7". No doubt the primary purpose of the firefight was to seal the deal with the heard.



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I don't think this scene was "real."
There were too many parallels and odd moments. Seemed more like a dream recreation (or flat out dream)... where some real-life things that happen pop in ....but suddenly something different happens, etc.
Plus, I feel like the actors were trying to be a bit ..."cartoon-y" (for lack of better word) at times. And not as genuine as usual. Andy Lincoln doesn't do anything that isn't on purpose. And I noticed it most with him,
Hence...I predict it was a dream timeline.
This. Be. My. Prediction.

 

Same here - I think the scenes that were shown throughout 801 were a mixture of actual flash-forwards (Rick's red-rimmed eyes) and dream/fantasy scenes. The dream scenes were made up of things within Rick's subconscious. Gracie's bunny, the flowers by the bed, Jesse's owl, etc.

 

Exactly.
Especially the owl and that house...which looked like a Disney set in the middle of Alexandria.
And the owl relates back to when the Blond-Mom-Who-Rick-Shagged was alive.
There was a thing with her son making owl art -- and they were destroyed by people.

So owls are a theme.
Do we know why???