THEY BE WATCHIN TO MUCH DARK CITY SON

 

My guess is that they won't initially be a problem. They wouldn't make Rick embrace them so eagerly if they were going to flip the junkyard group from the start. I think they might become a problem after Negan is defeated. It could be a bridge half season, or even a full one, in dealing with them before moving onto the Whisperers.

 

The deal was made a bit too hasty, in my opinion.
First of all, the garbage-group actually had no reason to believe Rick or Gabriel that there is another group out there that can provide all the stuff promised. The Saviors might as well be a harmless group that is being bullied by Rick's group.
But if they are not and really have all the stuff, why should Jadis believe that they are the bad ones and not Rick and his group?
Then I don't see the point in her little test for Rick to kill Winslow.
Does killing a walker make anyone trustworthy or believable?
I don't get it.
If she wanted to test his will and skills to fight she already had the proof she needed by Rick and his group being still alive. Plus, she observed them when they crossed the pond with the boat and took the supplies.

Rick may be desperate but he has no reason to believe that Jadis and her people are trustworthy.
It would be different if they had encountered the Saviors already but there was no sign that they had.

And why is it that most of the leaders and/or groups on TWD behave like total lunatics? I was really waiting for Jadis to take off, hover over the ground and summon Crowley...

 

They live in trash, they wait for other people to do all the work, they act all crazuh. Now they demand guns to join. I'd be kind of mad to Rick for recruiting these people. Negan probably knew of these people, but ignored them as they are completely useless.

 

Nice post. This was the most interesting part of the episode (at least, for me).

I think making a deal quickly was Rick's only way out. They certainly weren't going to fight their way out, so they had to talk their way out. Whenever we see 2 groups meet in the ZA they have to size each other up pretty quickly and decide whether they are a threat, someone to ignore/avoid, someone to work with, or someone to dominate/kill/steal from (if your group is into that sort of thing). So there is always this issue of using what you can see about the other group and also deciding whether or not to trust what the other people say about themselves (ie things you can't necessarily see or verify about the other group). Jadis sees she has the upper hand ("We own your lives now"). Rick points out that the Saviors already own their lives and would come looking for them if they went missing. He is either very lucky or very observant: these people live in the shadows and garbage, and seem to have a policy of staying hidden. At least, that is how I interpreted their statements about (a) "we take, we do not bother" and (b) Jadis waiting for a long time for someone else to claim the boat supplies so that she could steal them without having to expose herself to danger and detection in the middle of that lake. Now that they are involved, they can't just slink back into the shadows.

It will be very interesting to see how that plays out: Jadis's group wants to avoid danger and not become involved, but Rick is trying to pull them into a war. There is a contradiction there, so Jadis may very well reneg on her end of the deal once they get the guns, as you suggest.

Not so sure I agree with your point here. Look specifically at Eugene. His origin story is that he basically lied his way through the ZA, convincing Abraham to fight for him and protect him. Also look at Gregory (the leader of the Hilltop colony): he is a slimeball who can't fight but has managed to survive so far by being the leader of a group and manipulating the people around him to get their hands dirty and work while he sits back and profits. So my point is, just because they are alive doesn't mean they can fight.

She did observe Rick and Aaron taking the supplies, and I guess that shows they are brave, but I'm not sure that was Rick's greatest moment. Aaron fell in the water and nearly died.

Anyway, I'm not saying I endorse throwing people into a walker pit as a test of strength, I'm just saying it didn't strike me as illogical in any way, or overly forced in order to inject action into the show. It made sense given the context. Gabriel says "Rick can do anything" and so Jadis's response is "Prove it --- /shove."

As you say, he has no reason to trust them now that they've escaped. But he also has little choice now --- he has to go along with his end of the deal. These people have superior or equal numbers, they have weapons (Rick's group is short on those), and they know exactly where Alexandria is (they broke in to kidnap Gabriel). So if Rick doesn't show up with the guns soon as promised, he can't very well fight off both this group and the Saviors. He has to either get the guns before the next Saviors pickup, or scavenge enough guns and food to buy time from both groups.

My favorite part of this show has always been that the humans they meet are more dangerous than the zombies.

 

I may have overlooked something. Didn't the Scavengers follow Rick and Aaron back to Alexandria after they had taken Winslow's supplies? So they surely witnessed the Saviors paying a visit to Alexandra right when Rick and Aaron arrived.
So they probably know of the Saviors. Not to mention that the Saviors are a large group and have probably been observed by the Scavengers already.

If so, this might be the reason why Jadis didn't even ask any question about the Saviors. But has she some kind of a moral compass and would rather deal with Rick and his group than with the Saviors?
Or is it just a question of who is the strongest one and where to get an advantage?

Either way, I wouldn't trust them. Especially not since they are waiting for others doing the dirty work for them. It's not really a quality.

It's a bit of a dilemma to me. On the one hand I'm much more interested in the story and human interaction on TWD. The walkers are a side-effect to me.
On the other hand, I'm a bit tired of all the weirdos and psychos who obviously have forgotten who and what they were and now run around terrorizing and killing others instead of working together.
While a PA situation would surely bring up the worst in some people, history and athropologists claim that a threat from the outside - walkers, in this case - have and will bind people together in their need of protection and emotional security.
Actually, differences would be overcome easier in such a situation.
On TWD one gets the impression that the world now consists of freaks, psychos and lunatics with some few sane people.

Not to mention that often the followers adapt the behaviour of their leaders, as can be seen with the Saviors and Scavengers. It's not only following their rules but also imitating them.
The Scavengers talk like Jadis does, the Saviors act like Negan does. Especially Simon mimics Negan. Well, one reason might be that actually Negan mimics Trevor Phillips of GTA 5, who is played by "Simon" Steven Ogg...