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Joker

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Morgotha, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Major spoilers.

    This is a movie showing the backstory of the villain "the Joker" in the Batman series, but while the movie is set in the Batman universe, it has none of the camp silliness of Batman. Its tone is more like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" without the humor.

    Joaquin Phoenix plays "The Joker", and he does an outstanding job. He starts out as a mentally ill man in a decaying metropolis that doesn't care about him or itself. A lot of the movie is showing how he is trying to live a normal life, keeping the job that he can, trying to take care of his mother, trying to take his medications, etc., but is repeatedly brutalized in every part of his life. He gets beaten up on his job, his boss requires him to pay for the sign that he had broken over his head, he loses his job, is betrayed by his friend at work, gets his psychiatric care cut off for lack of funding... even his mother inadvertently steps on his dream. The man has literally no real highlights in his life, and just has to endure one abuse after another.

    He does, however, have a gun. He isn't really an active participant in his life, but rather passively has things happen to him. In this instance, he doesn't go buy a gun after getting beaten up by a gang of kids, but his coworker gives him the gun "for his protection". He gets fired from his job as he's seen by a client with the gun, and has this gun on him when he witnesses a woman being harassed on the subway by 3 men in suits. They end up beating him up, and he ends up shooting them all. At the time it seems like justice, but it does set a precedent for his future behavior, and the presence of the gun although never really emphasized in the movie, has a profound effect on his life. It was very well written, and directed.

    "A down and out clown killing three rich men in suits" also starts a movement in the city, as it resonates with people that one of the little people stood up to the rich, although it does not bring the Joker any joy.

    He doesn't really turn evil at this point, but uses the loss of his job as a motivator to try and achieve his dream, which is stand up comedy. This has been his goal, and is really something he's NOT suited for, but I really admired the strength it must have taken for him to get up on that stage and *try*. Given his performance, one would expect the audience would have heckled him off the stage, but they didn't. "The People" were reasonably courteous to him in his public failure, IMO.

    Not so his hero and representative of "the rich". Robert de Niro played a "Johnny Carson" like character in the show, who was the idol of the joker and his mother, who both watched his show religiously and who represented success and the good life to them. As an aside, IMO de Niro was really miscast in the role. I could see him being a representative of the establishment, but not someone who endeared himself to the populace to the point of being *the* nighttime host of the city. In any event, de Niro gets a hold of a tape of the Joker's bombing at the comedy club, plays clips of it on air, and mocks him about it. As the Joker had previously fantasized about being accepted by de Niro, this real-world slap and shattering of his dream was the straw that broke the camel's back for the joker, who to be fair about it, had put up with a lot.

    Average citizens in the movie take the whole "clown fights back against the rich" thing and run with it, and it becomes a movement, with demonstrations, etc. The Joker himself makes a "statement" on live t.v. that sets off rioting in the city, and is viewed as a hero. At the end of it all, though, he isn't some mastermind of evil, but a sad and twisted man. It makes you think.

    Overall, it's a powerful movie. The first half or so is just depressing, but it sets the stage for the ending. I wouldn't want to see it again, but I'm glad I saw it once, and would definitely vote for Joaquin Phoenix as "best actor". One other note: I've read that people are concerned that "incels" or social outcasts in real life will see this movie and be energized to commit real world violence. I don't see that happening. There might have been a moment or two of glory for the Joker in the show, but overall it doesn't leave you with the impression that the Joker gained anything by his actions. Nope, it's just a movie, not a call to arms.
     
    #1 Morgotha, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  2. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a fascinating character study. Thanks for sharing your review.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen this film yet but I've heard great things about it. It's amazing how well it's done at the box office. It's already pulled in over $200 million in the U.S.
     
  4. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    This was a very well done film. Joaquin Phoenix did an amazing job as the Joker. It is a very depressing case study of a descent into madness though. I didn't really empathize with the main character despite his mother's own mental illness. It never really seemed as if he had a struggle between good and evil in him. It felt as if he was more inclined toward evil.

    They did a good job of editing the movie down so it was a straight 2 hours. Anything more would've been too much, considering the character. The only thing that I would've changed is that I'd cut out the final scene. I'd have it end with him standing on the car with the mayhem in Gotham. When they were showing that it felt like that was going to be the end, so the last scene felt out of place.
     

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