I would love a twist where Negans Saviours and the others would coexist. Negan keeps doing his but lets the others be cause they are just to much ruckus. Negan and Ricks coalition trades...but do their own ways beside that. Rick adds more communities, Negan "conquers" or vassalize. And they both cooperate against bigger threats.

But it wont happen.

I guess Negan is necessary but Ricks more harsh side is also bit like Negan, if not bit more sporadic and chaotic but it puts an end to threats.

 

Not disagreeing, but I feel Negan does what he does because of who he is and the experiences that have defined him and how he chose to react to those experiences.

 

I really agree that the sanctuary seems like they would be all about killing if Negan wasn’t there. Especially if Simon was in charge.

But I disagree that anything is right about the way Negan has handled the other communities he’s come across. We know hilltop didn’t have fighters. He could’ve easily had provided protection in exchange for food without forced labor.
The kingdom was a strong community and would’ve been great to trade with but instead u continue to force them to provide and with zero tolerance to the point if they miss one day out of dozens you kill someone. You’re going to leave them no choice but to fight back or flee and then u have nothing.

So I agree that Negan bought order to the sanctuary and made them less of savages but I don’t think he is necessary. I think he’s a person good at getting ppl to follow him but he is leading them down the wrong path

 

Right. The argument could be made that Negan's internal rule of the Sanctuary was a necessarily evil, but that doesn't extend to his actions with all other communities they come into contact with, which is where he does the most damage.

 

Negan isn't some victim of circumstance, forced to be what he is in order to make the trains run on time.

He's the guy who saw the end of the world not as a tragic occurrence but as a golden opportunity to do whatever he wanted to without any real fear of repercussions.

He takes women as his "wives"...that's rape folks, not some kind of benevolent act toward the common good.

His first action upon meeting new people is to kill one of them and tell them they are now his slaves because he can't be bothered to be self-sufficient. He's a leech too.

No, he isn't a necessary evil, he's just an evil.

Yeah, Rick has killed, he's made some mistakes, but he's never been just out to murder and destroy for his own amusement. That's who Negan, a force for destruction and for no reason other than his own amusement.

 

Beautifully said. He's only where he is cause he's smarter and bolder than the rest of the criminals that comprise the hierarchy of the Saviors.

 

I think it is a struggle to say Negan takes pleasure in killing but doesn't do it for his amusement. I understand the distinctions you draw, but you are cutting him too much slack, IMO. Negan wants to subjugate both his own people and other communities. That's why he brutally murders.

While it is true that Negan kills people as "a reaction to an action he felt was a slight against him," he could take other actions. Spencer, for example, could have just been punched or verbally humiliated. Every sociopath who goes around killing people can give a reason--or a pretext. The horror of Negan for me is not just that he doesn't always need to kill people, it's that he sets up situations where he can be sadistic.

 

Actually, I don't know what you mean by "ravenous", but he is a murderer and clearly enjoys watching and committing murders.

He obviously enjoys torture as well and prefers people to be enslaved (yes, that is what he is doing to both the "workers" and the other communities he terrorizes to keep him fed).

He'a rapist too. There is no other word for what he does to his "wives". None of them are there willingly, but they know that leaving or even refusing his overtures will mean their deaths.

He chooses not to kill at times in order to use the people he doesn't kill against those who care for them. It is not a kindness or a mercy to not kill someone in order to use them as a pawn against those who care for them.

He is not a heroic guy. He's a psychopath.

He doesn't have morals or principles; he knows how to use the morals and principles of others as a weapon against them. He also recognizes similar traits in others. Note: his "lieutenants" are all willing and eager to kill other living humans.

A mad dog is put down for the safety of all. Negan is a mad dog.

 

LOL. So according to this logic, its a necessary evil to terrorize [including the murder of innocent people] any community you come across, just to keep your own men in line. Kind of like "sorry but we're all pigs who can't control ourselves, so we need to terrorize to keep us happy". Good luck with that. It was called the dark ages.

 

Rick generally doesn't torture, he doesn't rape, he doesn't kill for kicks. Yes, he has been brutal when necessary, but he doesn't prey on others when he can deal with them.

He killed the guys at the outpost not only due to what Gregory told him, but what Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham experienced as well. It was very clear from the meeting on the road that these were not people who could be dealt with honestly.

From Hilltop, they learned that Negan's way of saying "hi" to a new settlement is to brutally beat one of the people there to death in front of the rest of the community. While you may think that is a good introduction, I disagree.

You seem to think Negan is some kind of heroic figure. I disagree, strongly.

While "Sanctuary", an ironic name to be sure, since literally everyone there lives in fear of angering the guy in charge and getting burned, tortured, or murdered, may have originally been populated by escapees from prisons or psychopaths drawn together by a mutual love of violence and an unwillingness to learn to live independently rather than extorting food and other necessities from others, they are now simply raiders. They are not a community, they are raiders with slaves, trying to enslave every other community they come across.

Rick is a very different guy. He's made mistakes, but he doesn't beat people to death as a means of saying "hello". He doesn't rape women because he has declared himself to have some divine right to do so. There are a few of the key differences.

Negan is not a hero. He isn't even an anti-hero. He is a psychotic guy who terrorizes others becasue he's too lazy to do the work of forging a life for himself and leading his people to forge one for themselves.

 

Nah.

Negan's just an opportunistic sociopath. He uses his charm and the power of persuasive fear to fool people into thinking they need him to survive, or that he's providing stability, when really he's just taking advantage of other people's need for protection or purpose.

He's the worst kind of person. Nothing necessary about him - that's just what he wants people to think. Hell, he probably believes it himself. But he's all in it for himself, at the end of the day.

 

You are right. He has convinced these people that they need him to survive...and it isn't as if the people he has under his control have an option to leave.

Interesting counterpoint to Rick's group, where each of them have learned that they can fight and they can survive. They don't need an ultra violent madman to "protect" them.

 

It's an interesting argument. Some of you think Negan is just doing what he must with some serious character deficiencies but his heart isn't completely black, while others feel the opposite and that he is pure evil with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

so I say this to address the latter because I agree with the former. How will you react when they (most likely) keep Negan alive in the finale and Rick doesn't kill him and instead the comic is continued to be followed and he is imprisoned? Is that the wrong writing decision? I don't think so, because again, they are just following the comics. That has been the entire point of this show from Day 1 and episode 1, to follow the general tracetory and myriad plot points both big and small while remixing them in various ways and adding in original content and expanding on the source material.

And spoilers, Negan has some big presence and plot points in the comic after All Out War. In fact, with Issue 174, it is revealed and confirmed that he is (mostly) regretful of his actions such as killing Glenn and that he is pretty much rehabilitated. Not perfect by any means, but he said farewell to Lucille and seems to be a positive force moving forward. Essentially he is redeemed in the comic story, so more than likely they will follow this route.

Of course, the problem is actually with the show's writing department I think. They are constantly trying to one up themselves and defy expectations to the point now that I feel they have kind of written themselves into a corner and shot themselves in the foot. Killing off Carl threw a MASSIVE wrench into the works, and besides AMC's cheapness I strongly think (and it seems pretty apparent) they did it to help justify keeping Negan alive. But they caused that problem by making Negan more evil than his comic counterpart all for the sake of shock value and again, expanding things. But there has to be some kind of reason and plan in place for keeping him alive, if they do. It's interesting to think about for sure

 

To be honest, yeah, I do think it's the wrong decision.

I know how the comics go, and