Exactly. And it's easy to forget that Madison and Alysia left Nick—not the other way around.


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It appears that Nick turned his back on them and walked away.

This is from the AMC.com site. Shiva 207 full recap

Strand pulls up in the truck and urges them to get in. Nick walks up to Madison and says he couldn’t find Travis. He suspiciously asks where Celia is. “She was right about us,” he says. “We destroy everything.” Strand forces Madison into the truck as Nick turns his back on her. They watch a blood-slathered Nick walk away untouched among the Infected.

 

I don't think what Nick did was a 'junkie' thing, it was a teenager thing. Teenagers are weird and will leave all the sane people scratching their heads, and that goes for Chris as well as Nick. Alisha is way more mature for her age (left to raise herself) and isn't your typical teen. That's my experience, lol. And so you wait for your teen to act like a normal person with some sense again one day. Pretty sure Madison has had to do this with Nick before.

 

I missed all this because I spent the day making a Tamerlane Chess set.

 

You kill me. :zombies_lol:

And sorry Apollonia, I really didn't want you to feel insulted or whatever by my post.

As for all the people thinking Nick had to grow and that Maddison benefits from his absence... I'm really pulling my hair out here!! You leave your mother in a ZA, there's really not much of a chance you'll ever see her again. No matter how much time you need to grow by yourself!

Will they meet again and be amazed at how much they all grew while away from each other? It may very well be. Will I be appaled by how terrible this show's writing is? Yes!!

 

And I wasn't kidding. Tamerlane Chess is almost non-existent nowadays. You can not find a set online, at all. It was a form of chess, even more complicated than regular chess, that existed in Persia 700 years ago. I couldn't buy a set. So I'm making a set. That's off topic, but that's my weekend.

 

Why pull your hair out?

People are not made from cookie cutters. Everyone will react different, in every situation. And as I said, I believe Nick left his family long before the ZA. He is a junkie. He always will be. Even if he isn't using anymore, and redeeming himself. And Maddie wasn't really living, if she was always chasing after him.


Why would you think bad writing, when TWD did the very same thing? Season 4.
This move is to character build.

 

Apollonia,
I hope you have calmed down a bit.

I think that you misunderstood the intent of my above post.

It was not meant to be condescending in any way.

Stating that "you are a chick" is a bit rude. "Chick" is NOT a word in my working vocabulary, or rather not one that I would typically use. Nor do I use the term Dude. I imagine that "chick" is not a term that you would use to describe yourself. IMO it is a bit demeaning. So I apologize for using that term. I suppose that I used it because that is how you are described on the left hand side of the page.

Like it or not the stereotypical role of the female is that she is more caring than her male counterpart.
That does not mean that she is not intelligent, nor does it mean that she is irrational, or incapable of rational thought.
It does not mean that she won't stand and protect someone she loves. Don't get between a lioness and her cubs, a bear and her cubs, my mother and her children, my wife and her children, nor my daughter and her children.

The stereotypical male is more concerned with physical needs than emotional needs (at least in my generation) that may be changing.
So, from my generation's typical male perspective, it is unthinkable that a male child would leave his mother in a physically vulnerable position such as in a ZA.

However, I do understand that the women in my life, love their children so much, that they would "walk to the ends of the Earth" in the support of their children's needs. Either physical or emotional.

With that being said, I understand how you can be supportive of Nick and his actions. I am not saying that you are wrong.
So... as I said above "We are truly coming at this from different perspectives."

From MY perspective, I don't care about his personal emotional needs. IMO he should stay to protect his mom. Period!

 

Do you think she and Alysia and Strand should have stayed back to be with him? Remember, they're the ones who drive away. He chose not to go with him. Personally, from a story point of view, I'm glad it turned out this way. Story was getting pretty boring up to that point.


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@Poppy, and for that matter @NakedCity. Let me point out first that there was no reason for me to "calm down". Other then dealing with the sarcasm and what i perceived as sexism, i also know that this is a public forum and i am old enough and mature enough to realize that not everyone will agree with my opinion and in that same respect, i will not agree with everyone's as well. I have been on this forum for the last couple of years, and unless someone is being overly mean to others, there is not much that riles me up. Like i said in my first post, both of your opinions on Nick being a POS are valid for you. I did not say it was wrong, nor did i demean you for it. But you both have to admit, you jumped over my opinion (and others' previously) when they offered a different reason or outlook or counter to your reasoning behind your opinion on Nick and his actions. I defended that. I STILL think you both are entitled to your opinions and the one @Sharpie61 and I both agreed on all have merit. This is what a forum is all about. The chick and dude monikers were implemented by whoever set this site up and i have no control over it. I just have never said to anyone that their opinion is based on their gender and frankly, never usually look to see what gender someone is when im responding to a post. It is usually an afterthought. That said, i do not get butthurt over silly things so its all good. This forum needs posters who can contribute ANY opinion and as long as its a healthy debate and does not turn into trolling, then welcome and forget the last couple of pages lol.

That being said, I fully agree on the "lioness and cub" analogy. I have both a 21 and 23 year old son and god help anyone who tries to hurt my babies and vice versa. My boys would go ballistic if anything or anyone hurts me. BUT, at the same time, and something i have gone through recently with one of them, there is a time where you have to let them go and let them spread their wings without the fierce need to shadow and protect them. Because of that, i have to look deeper at Nick's motives behind leaving and feel that there is more then what we see now. He has already proven sympathetic and empahthetic to other characters (ie. fatherless children). Whatever his journey is now and what it leads to remains to be seen. I just hesitate to call or think him a POS and take a stance that he "left them to die". But thats just me.

I see it this way. When Nick left, his mom had his sister, Strand and Ofelia and a vehicle. He already knew Travis was staying with Chris. He left alone. Of the 3, Nick is the most in peril in my opinion. I like to believe that he had to leave rather then want to leave if that makes sense. We will just have to see where it goes.

PS: @Neuropyramidal - I had to google Timerlane chess and from what i saw, you DID need the whole day. It also appears that there may have been math involved in making this game. I am and will be eternally greatful that you didn't ask for help. When you finish and look for an opponent to play with you, i wish you the best of luck in finding one.....which I am sure you will do. It is unfortunate that I will be very very EXTREMELY busy on that day. **Muuahhh***

 

I don't think they had much choice.
Not only were they about to be engulfed by a horde of walkers, and weren't the living people of the compound coming after them too?

Shall we discuss who left whom?
Through out the show, they traveled as a group in one car or two, then one big boat, then a pickup truck.
With the compound burning, walkers, and I think living chasing them, they all decided to leave the compound.
Most of the group gathered together and got into the truck they arrived in.
On the way out, they stopped for Nick.
Nick walked into a herd of walkers.
Strand pulled Maddie into the truck and they drove away.

Nick left them.

There was no discussion as a group.

Now... why did Nick have to choose that particular time to walk away?
IDK. At any later time, he could have discussed it with the group, and then walked off into a herd.
The group could have decided if they wanted to put on blood and guts and walk with him or not.
He did not afford them the opportunity to discuss it and make a decision.
He just walked away.

 

Just thought of something to add to this. Nick made this decision AFTER finding Travis and Travis begging him to not tell his mother that he was found and that he had to stay with Chris. Up until then, i do not feel that Nick had any intentions of leaving on his own. Either that played into it or he made the decision at some point on the way back because the ONLY reason he was out looking for Travis was because his mother asked him too.

 

When I am emotionally involved in a show, I remember much more detail. I am hoping that this last episode is evidence that the show is going to turn around.
I don't remember enough of that scene to be able to comment on it. But, I did wonder WHY did Travis tell Nick to lie?

 

Im thinking because he didn't want to admit how far gone Chris was to Maddie. That and the fact (which should be no surprise), that he was choosing his son over Her. If they have showed us anything of Travis since the beginning is that he's a softy. Clearly gets tortured over every bad act he has to do, even shows remorse when killing walkers, maybe he asked Nick to lie because he would know that making that choice, even though Maddie may have understood, would still have hurt her.

 

Guess that makes it his first real entry into adulthood then. And it makes the story a whole lot more interesting, just as I'm sure Travis is having second thoughts about going after Chris. And Madison and Alysia are getting to know each other again. One thing's for certain: it's a lot harder to keep in touch without cellphones.


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Some may see it as an adult thing to do. I don't see it that way... yeah, in a NORMAL world, One might hear..."Grow up and get out on your own" but in this situation, I think the more ADULT thing to do is to stay together with the group.

As far as the story goes, almost ANYTHING would have been an improvement.
This last episode was the best of the show, hopefully with a new director, it will be better yet.

I'm looking forward to tonight's episode so that we have new stuff to talk about.
Funny that I should say that. :zombies_lol:

 

haha, I've spent about 7 hours so far, and I've only made the white pieces. The black ones will be for another weekend. . And I emailed the head of a chess club in a nearby city, and he told me to pick a week and he'll dedicate that week's chess club meeting to having me come with my set and teach everyone Tamerlane Chess lol. So other people in the universe will know how to play.

 

So Maddie wouldn't realize that Travis willingly chose Chris over her. If Nick lies and says he never found Travis, there are more possibilities. Maybe something prevented him from coming back, and he got trapped somewhere. Maybe he was killed. Personally, I think it would be more comfort for her to know the truth, that he was alive, and not in trouble at the time, but in Travis' mind he felt it would be better if she didn't know he willingly abandoned her.

 

Yeah, I agree with your assessment. I think that it was foolish on his part; I would have told the truth.

 

Of course, if Nuck told the truth, Maddie probably wouldn't have left, and she and the others would have been a nice feast for the infected, since they hadn't yet adopted Nick's survival skills. They'll reunite, much like they do on TWD, because it's television.


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