i didnt get the child molesting part but the guy clearly abused her violently isnt it
then shane also gave him a warning before beating him half dead

important point is, shane didnt beat the guy up to help carol or sophia...he did give him a beating for himself because he was so angry about rick and lori...thats the main point here

so he does something "good" out of bad intensions...like id want to shoot u but miss the shot and hit a zombie behind u that was about biting you.

 

If that was the case I'd still say, "thanks" for saving my life. The fate of your soul would be determined by your intentions, my life however would be saved by your actions.

 

I want to survive, Shane did a pretty good job of that till Rick showed up. Before Rick there was like 25+ people; after Rick Less then 10.

 

Wait how do you know Shane didn't Beat him up for beating on Carol. Wasn't ED beating on Carol before Shane intervened. I'd say Shane did do that to stop Carol from getting beat worse. Shane had a a lot of bad moments but he also had a lot of good moments. I think this was one of his best..

 

The attack on the camp was ALL ON Shane. Rick was there for less than 24 hours, Shane was there for, what 2 weeks. No defenses, only a patchy ring of rocks in cans and Shane wasn't getting people to improve the defenses. Also instead of defensive training, Shane had them doing laundry.

 

For one, I'd like to say that you are wrong. Primarily because Shane was a hothead who acted without any rational thought. He wouldn't have killed the Zombies in a safe matter, he would've let them out like he did to Hershel's barn in Season 2, which put the lives of many in danger. Rick wiped out the zombies leading inside to the prison, but he locked up the large hordes behind gates(the group is low on ammo). If you recall, the prisoner that he threw into the courtyard with zombies, cut his way back into the prison and let Zombies in with him. Secondly, Rick is far from a "wussy". He has kept this group safe through the hell that has been thrown their way. Yes, people will die, but that will happen no matter what. One man can only handle so much. Rick had to kill his best friend for these people. Then the loss of his wife. I believe that anybody in that situation would turn psycho.

 

I'd trust Shane about as much as I'd trust Merle. As soon as it suited his needs or desires, you'd be dead. Rick has morals, can trust others and is looking out for the survival of his group. Shane has no morals, trusts nobody, and cares only for the survival of himself and Lori.

 

Decision Making Skills

Rick clearly made some bad decisions in earlier seasons. As Shane had pointed out, Rick is good at coming up with suicide missions that accomplish nothing, such as putting people's lives in danger to look for people whom already were a lost cause. But, he has matured as a leader and been making better decisions.

I do not think you can blame Rick for the prisoner who cut the locks and let the walkers loose. How the hell was Rick to know the guy was not dead when Rick locked him into that courtyard. Rick's intention was not to let him live, he knew he was a danger and thought the guy had died at the hands of walkers.

Rick's main modus operandi is having a group that respects each other and is like a tight family. I agree with this method. If Shane had his way, he would have execution style killed anyone who did not kiss his boots & there would be no genuine cooperative spirit. Simply put, Rick is a lot better at diplomacy and forging forward with outcomes to benefit the group as a whole.

Shane just wanted his own selfish power & instant gratification. He did not care about anyone but himself.
Shane was too much like the governor. More than likely Shane would have switched sides and got everyone in the group killed in order to be part of Woodbury for his own selfish interests.

Seeing the phone also made me think of this....WHERE THE HELL ARE THE RADIOS??? It's a jail, all the guards would have had dedicated 2 channel radios on them, why isn't Rick and his group using radios to stay in contact with each other on the prison grounds and when they go on runs. Or utilizing the main base station radio which every prison has for emergencies to try to radio for help, the prison has working generators to power the radio!!!

Anyhow....it's going to be interesting to see the approach they decide to take with Woodbury--it's got a Mayberry appeal, no?...I am happy that they'll have Michonne.

 

If Shane was in charge, they probably would have ran out of ammo a long time ago. Shane was good at handling matters in the present but was not good at looking toward the future and the big picture. Shane wanted to stay at the camp and it would have fallen eventually. Rick had the foresight to know that they needed a better situation which is why they left that first camp

 

No, but lying to people and plotting the demise of others by your own hands is okay. Good Lord, do these Shane trolls ever cease to amaze me?

 

You're opinion is wrong. You are a troll.

Yawn.

 

Strong points, [MENTION=1316]2gun[/MENTION]. All 14 of them.

Shane = dead
Rick = living
'Nuff said.
*12*

 

Great points 2gun, also have to mention who thought it was a good idea to settle in an area close to a large city with no security whatsoever.
Under the false pretenses of some dream of getting rescued, given blankets and hot cocoa? Shane.
The brilliant brilliant man that stomps around and cries and has temper tantrums that makes my 2 year old niece look tame.

 

I agree, radios would indeed be nice, but typical prison VHF/UHF radios would require a base station to charge them which would require power. And so far, I haven't seen any power yet.

But Axl is working on the generators so maybe in the future...

 

You can do such a list about almost every character even Rick.

 

How was it Rick and the prisoners fault that Lori died. Im preety sure Lori died because she was pregnant and gave her life to spare her baby.
Oh and if Shane was so good he would have killed Rick but he couldn't and in season 2 who beat up Shane oh yeah Rick.
And how was keeping the prisoners alive a bad idea they have became a great asset to the group, it wasn't them who let all the walkers out it was some other prisoner they didn't know about.

 

Shane was doomed for a long time. A person like him could not survive long term in a ZA.

 

This was the problem. Shane couldn't control his emotions or actions. You can't just blame Lori for having Shane try and kill Rick. Shane would do the same thing, blame it on someone else and that's why he wouldn't be a good leader. Rick kills because it's what's best of his family and the group. Even when he was about to leave Shane in the school bus, he turned around because it wasn't what was right. Shane killed because it was best for himself.

Saying that Shane could've kept Rick's family better protected than Rick could've is not a valid argument. Unless you are given permission, you don't just take over another man's (or woman's for that matter) family even if you could do a better job. As it's been mentioned, Shane is not Carl's father, or the baby's father (by Lori's definition), or Lor's wife. He had no right to do what he did.

And, as it's also been mentioned, Shane is dead. So Shane couldn't even manage to protect himself, both mentally and physically.

 

Judging Rick on how he reacted when his wife died? Seriously?

I'm not sure what you understand, his WIFE died. The women that he loved, wussy/dumbass on the phone? Imagine yourself in a zombie apocalypse, losing your loved ones, and then your wife is gone, you don't get a chance to even say goodbye because the group was separated, I would like to see how you reacted. The phone deal wasn't up to him, his mind was playing tricks on him, he wasn't weak for crying when his wife died, I can guarantee you would do the same, he was in a messed up state and I think it's unfair to say he was being a wussy and a dumbass. His mind made him hear things, imagine things such as the phone, and in a way, as he didn't get a chance to say goodbye, that was how he said goodbye to Lori, it was his way of dealing with things.

Stupid comment. I did like Shane as a leader before Rick came back though, he was great for the group, it was more Lori that got in between the two men, and stuffed up their friendship and leading to Rick being forced to kill Shane. Rick would never go that far downhill as to kill one of his own men/women unless it was forced, Shane, in the end, was the psycho, not Rick.

 

Shane was always going to end up dead, one way or another, because he had no impulse control, no capacity to understand the perspective of others, no personal courage, complete narcissistic self regard and no capacity for dispassionate long term planning. He was a classic sociopath.

The Gov is also a sociopath but, unlike Shane, he's not as dumb as a bag of hammers.