If Shane was alive in Season three the Governor would(probably) be more of a side character than a main character. Shane and Rick together would be almost unstoppable. Though I guess the Governor could hide in his tank until it ran out of fuel...

 

Agreed. I recently read on TWD wikia that the Gov and Michonne were the hardest roles to cast. I get that with Mich, and maybe if the Governor got his full comic act. But, not the way they went - I don't buy it.

Although, Shane's death was needed at that time and made sense. It would've been nice to see him go longer. I know for one thing, Rick would not have been able to stop him from going to look for Andrea after the herd came through, when Daryl just fell in line like he always do.

 

@Zvivor - I totally agree. I really wish that somehow they could incorporate him in. Even if it's just Rick having a dream of Shane telling him to fight against Negan and the Saviors, for thanking him for taking care of his daughter, Judith. Something. Anything. I adore Shane more and more. I write TWD fanfic and most of it is Shane-centered. It's the only way right now to keep him alive--to write about him and his amazing character.

 

@Shane357 @Nachtbringer @RicksdaMan -- I'm so glad all of you like the pics from that link that @Dnae provided. It's so awesome to see how Shane Walsh is still talked about after all these seasons. It's a real testament to his character.

 

@Zvivor - thank you! I've been writing fanfiction for years on my favorite fandoms. I love writing Shane-centered fics. Some are Rick-centered with a lot of Shane in it. I have one fanfic here in the fanfic subforum "Stand My Ground". I also have a profile on Fanfiction.Net under my screenname "Sassy Lil Scorpio." I put a link to it on my profile here. I have started exploring other characters (Eugene, Tara, Abraham, Rosita, and Sasha), but I mainly love to write about Shane and Rick. @Shane357 also writes TWD fanfic with heavy emphasis on Shane.

Yes, Shane did a lot of things--that although it was questionable at the time or even disliked--often times he did it with the best of intentions and it would blow up in his face. Such as trying to get Rick out of the hospital, trying to get the supplies for Carl, --even trying to talk to Lori at the CDC and letting his emotions get the best of him to the extent that he almost forced himself on her. Shane is truly a gray character. It's what I find so fascinating about him.

I think a lot of characters are held up as being good when compared to Shane - who is often thought of as bad. I'm on a TWD FanFamily page on Facebook and one of the questions was who was worse for lying: Shane or Eugene. Thankfully this was more balanced than other questions that pit Shane against...say Daryl, Merle, Rick, Dale or other characters. My response was: Shane lied about killing Otis and Eugene's lies caused the deaths of others. Big difference IMO.

Rick has done much worse, but then again, Rick was faced with much worse by the time he did those things. I don't meant that to minimize Shane's experiences because his experiences were very horrifying too. Especiall when forced to make choices about others' lives. Shane's time was surviving hoardes of walkers in the hospital and at the school. He never learned about the whole "dress up in their guts and they wont smell you'". Imagine if Shane and Otis had known to do that at the school---I bet you they would've made it out alive. There was no Governor, Terminites, or Negan to compare to Shane at that time, so it's like by default, he is deemed "bad".

And when you think about it...Shane faced walker- related threats which as we learn...eventually become much. more manageable. Whereas Rick was faced with more human threats. I think that's why both men's actions and who they become is different and similar. That's where TWD tagline comes in : "fight the dead. Fear the living." Because the threat of someone like Negan who can get a huge group of people to follow his every command is far deadlier than a herd of walkers. The group knows how to deal with the walkers but when faced with dangerous humans....that's where they still struggle. And I think it's why it may seem Rick has done worse things, although if Shane were alive he might have supported some but not all of Rick's decisions. And to be fair to both men, both want their loved ones to stay alive, their process of their characters hardening and becoming more brutal is what makes them stand apart.

I'm not sure if Isabelle was the Savior's/Neganite's name, but that's a good point: Michonne could've brought her back to Alexandria to see if she could be help Rick and the group. I forget if the lady hinted to Michonne to kill her. I think she did, but I'd have to rewatch it.

I agree with you that Shane didn't kill in cold blood. When he did to Otis, it effected and changed him drastically. When he killed Randall--yes, he was going to lure Rick out, but Randall was also very dangerous and Shane wasn't fooled by his sheninagans.

LOL That's a good idea to not count sheep, but instead to count things Shane did--you can list them here, we're all aboard the Shane-Train, so it's all good! I'll copy/paste links of Shane Walsh fanfic if you like so that next time you can't sleep, you have some reading material. I hope you are sleeping better now!

I'm not sure either, although there are some very good characters. The writing and Jon Bernthal truly made Shane's character outstanding. In the comics, he was one-dimensional. On the show, he is more developed.

 

@ShaneFan

I hated the comic version of Shane but loved the TV version. You're right, in the comics he was so one dimensional, and there is barely a page establishing their friendship. -"he's Rick's best buddy, he slept with Rick's wife, we hate him, lets kill him, BLAM'' kind of character

 

@ShaneFan and @Shane357: I think a lot of viewers hate Shane because he slept with Lori. Many of them may not seen the flashback to where Shane tried his best to rescue Rick from the hospital, the electricity went out and therefore the heart monitor. He put his head on Rick's chest listening for a heartbeat, then put his forehead with closed eyes on Rick's chest. He thought Rick was dead and had done his best to save him, at enormous risk to himself, given what was going on in the hospital. A second main reason a lot of viewers hate Shane was the Otis matter. But I have said many times, as horrible as the decision Shane made, I would have been forever grateful if Carl were my son, and Rick said the same thing to him in the Six Miles Out episode -- specifically, that he would have done the same thing.

I think Shane was driven to extremes by Rick's acquiescene to Hershel's deluded, foolish pacifism. Shane had an internal strength that is much deeper than Rick's -- for all of Rick's talents and strengths. The biggest mistake Rick made in this entire story is to turn his back on Shane, to listen to Lori's treachery against Shane and Hershel's hatred of him for exposing that walkers in the barn were not sick but were dead. If Rick had stuck with Shane, and not followed Hershel's foolish pacifist guidance, the prison would not likely have fallen. In don't think Rick would have made half of the mistakes he has made if he and Shane were a leadership team. And, as you point out -- he has done far, far worse than Shane, as has Darryl, as had Michonne (especially recently.

This all makes me think that TWD should consider an "Alternative TWD", one with much of the same story lines but in which Shane does not die and Shane and Rick, more or less, lead the survivors who are relying on them. Wouldn't that be fun?

 

@Zvivor - I agree with much of what you wrote.

Shane Walsh is a gray character. My opinion is that some viewers that hate Shane -- see him in black and white...instead of seeing how gray his character really is.

Honestly, when I first saw the love-making scene with him and Lori...my first thought (aside from me going wow, this man is fine as hell) -- was "Wow, what kind of friend sleeps with his best friend's wife?" However, I chose to still give him a chance...see what happens.

I agree that some may not remember that he did his best to rescue Rick from the hospital. Shane definitely risked a lot to save Rick. One one hand...I believe Shane may've thought Rick was dead. But I also think it's possible that if he did hear Rick's heart beating...how was he going to get him out of there without them both getting killed? So he did the right thing--he pushed the gurney in front of the door--and those things are heavy--in doing so, he saved Rick's life.

And yes, many fans hate Shane for the Otis matter---and totally forget that he told Otis to go on ahead of him. Truth is: if Shane didn't show any internal struggle for what he had done to Otis---then I wouldn't have liked him. If he had shot Otis out of cold blood, malice, hatred for what Otis had done to Carl...then I wouldn't like him or defend him. I wouldn't be "ShaneFan".

While I try to see it as other fans see it: that shooting Otis and leaving him there as bait to escape with the supplies to save himself and for Carl was selfish and brutal---I just can't buy that. I tend to thing along the lines of: "well, that's a horrible position to be put in. no one wants to make a decision like that." The fact that Shane changed so drastically after that trauma (because it really is a trauma--to have your life on the line like that, to make the choice to kill another person so that you and those you love can live), the way he sometimes let out what he felt about it--like when he told Andrea that sometimes you try to forget if you've taken a person's life and that he "hasn't got that last part down yet"---it shows how his actions really haunted him.

And that's what I love about Shane--that he wasn't cold blooded, that he was trying so hard to do the right thing in a world where sometimes he would have to make very difficult choices and then have to live with himself after...I think this makes Shane all the more interesting and human. He knew he was becoming brutal, but he knew it would take being brutal--to some extent--to survive in the world they were living in.

Rick said he would've done the same thing in "18 Miles Out" but later on when he gives Shane back his gun and makes comments that 'if you want to kill me you're gonna have to kill that kid first" and then says "that cant be easy--killing someone--you should know that...as much as I like Rick, I really hated him (okay, hate is a strong word)...I really disliked him in that moment because it's almost like he was planting the seeds or daring Shane to kill him...and even throwing back in his face what Shane admitted to when Rick confronted him...first he asks Shane "was it to survive" and offered Shane understanding. Then to say "it's not easy, you should know that". Wow, really Rick? Really?! Hmm...

I agree on some level that Shane's extreme came from Rick wanting to meet Hershel with where he was at. And at that point, Hershel was of other extreme to the extent that he felt walkers were sick people. And I really wish Rick hadn't listened to Lori's nonsense about Shane---IMO she was just burying the guilt she had about sleeping with him. While I do believe it's possible that if Rick had listened to Shane, that the prison wouldn't have fallen---I also think Rick needed to have that experience--as well as deal with the Claimers, the Terminites---to understand what Shane was saying all along. Rick hadn't been forced to make difficult decisions like Shane was since Shane had longer exposure to the ZA.

Daryl, Michonne, and Rick were really up against different threats. They were getting to the extent that Shane did---where being out there long enough will change them. Shane changed faster because he was exposed to more. We don't know if Daryl had an experience like Shane did (such as getting supplies and running into a walker herd)...and Michonne--she was hardened for awhile and then opened up...I'm thinking of how she had her boyfriend and his friend as walkers.

I'd love for there to be an alternative TWD where Shane lives and helps lead the group....but until that day comes....there's fanfiction!

 

Some videos for your viewing pleasure...

 

@Shane357 - I agree with your assessment of Shane's character in the comics. I'm so glad they added more to his character in the show. If he's going to be Rick's best friend, why not give him more to work with?

 

Agree with one exception --- I think weak men, or men who are otherwise strong but did not recognize the reality with which they were faced, were hazards too. Hershel was one of those. Even though he eventually recognized the "walking dead" were dangerous dead and not just sick, he still held it against Shane and along with that traitoress, Lori, and his former best friend Rick mercilessly treated Shane like garbage. No one, not even Darryl, not even Andrea, much less Lori or his best friend Rick, stood up for Shane. Hershel was weak and delusional. Later, at the prison, he talked Rick into playing farmer into protecting the prison and the prison was lost. That would never have happened with Shane.

I am not saying Hershel was a bad person -- I am saying, he remained delusional, unadapted to the new world. Delusional to the end, smiling while Rick was offering to share the prison with a mad man. Rick chose to follow Hershel farming instead of protecting and leading (Carl was right) to the downfall of ALL of them. That would have not have happened if Shane had continued to be Rick's wingman. As much as I loved other characters, especially Abraham, none of them challenged Rick enough when his decisions were not good.

 

This is how Shane would look in Season 7 ^^

 

@Nactbringer - Shane would like how Rick did in Season 5!

 

@Zvivor - I'm sorry for taking so long to respond to you. I was thinking about what you wrote and let myself get distracted by other things, but I definitely want to address your least message.

I agree with you that those who didn't face the reality of the ZA are a hazard. When Shane was alive, it was Hershel. When Rick was in Alexandria upon just arriving, it was the Alexandrians. But to focus on Hershel: I'm glad he accepted the situation for what it was eventually, but keeping the walkers on his farm was very dangerous--yes they were cooped up in the barn, but if they had ever gotten out--his entire family could've been killed.

I don't like how Shane was treated either. I do think Andrea backed him up at one point (I don't remember when and I could be mistaken), but no one really understood where Shane was coming from, and it didn't help that is demeanor was off-putting.

I agree that if Shane was around that he wouldn't have allowed for Rick to be talked into playing farmer. In a sense, I feel that it's Carol in Season 4 who becomes Shane's voice (maybe a toned down version of Shane) when she tells Rick "you can't just be a farmer Rick." You want to live, but you also have to survive.

I don't get the sense that you are saying Hershel is bad. But being delusional, while not an evil or bad thing, is still dangerous. I think Hershel wanted to be hopeful in such an upside-down world, much as Dale did. And while it is good to be hopeful, once must also be realistic too. When faced with the Governor, Rick was still holding onto that hope, and after the Governor, the Claimers, and Terminus...the hope in Rick shriveled up and died and he became tougher and no-nonsense like Shane.

It's like when Glenn and Michonne told Rick that they were "out there too long"...in a sense, Shane was out there so long and had experience on top of experience (Otis, the hospital, etc) that hardened him at a time when Rick was still finding his way.

 

Very perceptive. Yes, I am not saying Hershel was bad. I am saying he did not adequately understand the new world they had all landed in, and Rick --for reasons never explained -- deferred to him over and over -- first,, when he should have listened to Shane instead and later, after Shane's death, when he should have found an internal compass and not listened to Hershel telling him to be a farmer. Meanwhile, Hershel, the head of the prison council, did nothing to look for the Governor. Heck, everybody else -- ever Darryl -- tried to talk Michonne into no longer searching for him. m, Hershel was out of touch with the new reality,, but because everyone loved him and kowtowed to him m like the great sage that he was not, steps were not taken to protect the prison and all was lost.

This would not have happened if Shane were there. It would not have happened, if after killing Shane, Rick would have adopted some of Shane's skepticism, instead of weakly deferring to "daddy" Hershel. Hershel was wrong. Rick should have known better. He did not need an old, out of touch man's guidance. He did not need kudos or support from those who would not disagree with Hershel. Hell, even Michonne was duped. The ONLY one, as you point out, who tried to give Rick advice like Shane gave him, was Carol -- as you point out.

Today, Rick can't stand on his own two feet for two minutes without kissy-facing with Michonne. I like Michonne , but I think she feeds Rick's weakness, while propping him up. I used to love Rick, but now I love him, but do not trust his judgment (with or without Michonne). He needs a strong male counterpart, not just Michonne.


Rick should have known better. I

 

@Zvivor - I agree that Hershel didn't understand the new world they lived in. He had lived on a farm which was secluded from Atlanta where the walker population was large. So he was further removed from it. Then when his loved ones became walkers, he couldn't accept it. In a way, and this may sound weird and like a huge stretch, but Hershel reminded me of those very rare cases when a person is unable to cope with the loss of a loved one -- and the person actually holds onto the corpse. There was a story like that a few years ago about a woman in Belgium holding onto her deceased husband's body in her home...there are graphic pictures in the online article. It's very sad.

I think Rick deferred to Hershel because Hershel was older and like a father figure to him. In general, I find that Rick fluctuated between being confident about his decisions to needing support/validation especially when he struggled (such as after Lori's death). I agree that Rick shouldn't have completely fallen back to being a farmer, because then when he was attacked by the Governor, he was caught off guard.

My thoughts are that Rick wanted to have semblance of a "normal life"...however normal he could get while trying to survive a ZA. And given all he's lost: his wife, his best friend, his home, his life in general, I don't fault him completely for wanting that. It's just that he needs to have that balance between being able to survive while also living at the same time.

With Rick not listening to Shane back then and later...I think Rick needed to learn from his own experiences. Hearing it from Shane that "the right choice is what keeps us alive" wasn't enough for Rick. Plus, Rick may've been still harbored anger towards Shane -- for sleeping with his wife, for leading him out to the field to kill him...so at this point, Rick wanted to erase Shane from his life or at least for the time being--including not taking what Shane had told him to heart.

I agree that the prison downfall wouldn't have happened if Shane were there, or even if it did happen, it would've been handled differently. Rick had to be really broken and have his back against the wall with all other experiences before he adopted Shane's attitude.

Carol gave him good advice, but then he also exiled her when she made a decision to kill two sick people in order that they wouldn't spread the sickness behind the walls. IMO, Rick wanted to try to keep his humanity as Dale had suggested -- so when he was encountering hardened survivors like Shane and Carol -- it didn't jive with him. Later on, it would--after the Governor destroyed his home. After the Claimers almost raped Carl, threatened to rape and kill Michonne -- do both horrible acts in front of Rick -- and then threatening to kill Rick after. After dealing with Terminus. Everyone develops differently and Rick hardened at a slower pace than Shane did. Shane was already there--because of what happened at the hospital when he tried to get Rick out, and most of all, because of the Otis situation where he realized he would have to be brutal to survive and do unthinkable things. Carol got there--and she had been an abuse victim and eventually grew stronger. Rick was behind them but eventually got there. It just took him longer.

I like Michonne too, but I agree it would be good to see him have a strong counterpart. I think before him and Michonne became a couple (and I do like them together) -- she called him out on things a lot more. Now that they are together, it's different. Maybe that's why it seems like Rick doesn't have anyone to challenge him.