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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A convicted felon tried to bring a gun in to the airport in Atlanta. The gun went off in his bag and he ran away without being detained.

    Felons, btw, aren't supposed to have guns. I supposed he missed his flight, but since when he's caught he'll doubtless be released without bail, he can catch the next one.

    "
    A manhunt was underway in Atlanta on Saturday night after an apparently accidental gunshot at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport set off a panic among travelers.

    The firearm went off after a passenger awaiting a bag search reached inside his bag for the weapon, FOX 5 of Atlanta reported. After the shot was fired, the passenger ran off from the security checkpoint and fled from the airport, according to the report.

    The incident was thought to be an accident and not an "active shooter" situation, authorities said.

    Authorities later identified the traveler as Kenny Wells, 42, who they said was a convicted felon. Police obtained a warrant for his arrest and he was still being sought late Saturday night."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/atlanta-airport-gunfire-manhunt-underway-convicted-felon-kenny-wells
     
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    People were rioting in Rotterdam over covid restrictions.

    "
    Police opened fire on protesters in rioting that erupted in downtown Rotterdam around a demonstration against COVID-19 restrictions late Friday night. The Dutch city's mayor called it "an orgy of violence."

    Police said that two rioters were hospitalized after being hit by bullets and investigations were underway to establish if they were shot by police. The condition of the injured rioters was not disclosed.

    Officers arrested 51 people, about half of them minors, police said Saturday afternoon. One police officer was hospitalized with a leg injury sustained in the rioting, another was treated by ambulance staff and "countless" others suffered minor injuries.

    Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters in the early hours of Saturday morning that "on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves" as rioters rampaged through the port city's central shopping district, setting fires and throwing rocks and fireworks at officers.

    "They shot at protesters, people were injured," Aboutaleb said. He did not have details on the injuries. Police also fired warning shots."

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/orgy-of-violence-dutch-police-open-fire-rioters
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    More looing in San Francisco by an organized mob. You tell people you aren't going to punish people who steal and -surprise, surprise- some people decide to steal.

    "Dozens of looters descended on a Nordstrom store and stole merchandise Saturday night in a raid that was over within a minute, police in Walnut Creek, California said.

    Approximately 80 people rushed into the store in the city’s Broadway Plaza, a spokesperson for the Walnut Creek Police Department told NBC News.

    They said that one employee was pepper sprayed, and two others were punched and kicked. All three sustained minor injuries, and were treated and released at the scene, they added.

    The suspects were in and out of the store, which was open at the time, within a minute, the spokesperson said, adding that an undetermined amount of merchandise was taken.

    Jodi Hernandez, a reporter with NBC Bay Area, was near the store when the raid took place. She tweeted that about 25 cars blocked the street during the incident.

    People in the cars rushed into the store and jumped back into their cars before speeding away with goods, she said.

    Hernandez said it appeared that most looters got away. A video she took at the scene showed police officers arresting and handcuffing some of the alleged looters. An officer can also be seen pointing a weapon at one of the drivers.

    NBC News has reached out Nordstrom for comment on the incident.

    Brett Barrett, who works at a nearby restaurant, told NBC Bay Area he saw 50 to 80 people in ski masks carrying crow bars during the incident.

    “I had to start locking the front door, the back door,” he said. “You never know, they could have come right in here.”"

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/dozens-of-looters-rush-california-nordstrom-store/ar-AAQXFUS
     
    #6983 Morgotha, Nov 21, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  4. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Your approach to things is never nuanced, I’ve discovered, always black and white. :rolleyes: In the real world, people buy something called insurance to protect their homes and businesses from unforeseen calamity. While it would be disheartening to see my home or business burn to the ground, if I was properly insured I would be able to rebuild.
    I just stated that if I did feel the need to protect my business from people I felt would do it harm then I would be behind the doors of my establishment and would not be roaming the streets looking for trouble. If they set foot within the boundaries of my business then we’d have a completely different set of circumstances with which to deal with. I would be much more comfortable with self defense in that scenario.

    Yes, it might seem callous but sometimes it’s better to stay at home and let local law enforcement and city officials handle things their own way. I would never feel the need to insert myself in a situation that was even 20 miles away. I would be thankful it was 20 miles away and would snobbishly say, that would never happen where I live, LOL;)

    Let’s move on to soldiers. Was Kyle a soldier? No. Was he a police officer? No. Was he a security guard with a proper license to carry a lethal weapon? No. Sorry. Kyle, as I’ve said multiple times, was a minor who had NO legal status to do what he was doing. I don’t know what part of that you don’t understand.

    As for soldiers being killers, they are acting on behalf of our government and have been given the authority to kill enemy combatants. Except for in the case of the Civil War, they are usually fighting people from other countries. However, they can be held responsible if they kill civilians needlessly. Some veterans don’t handle “killing” very well. It messes them up and can effect their lives for years even when they’ve returned stateside.

    Has Kyle expressed remorse for the fact that he had to “kill” others even as he claimed he felt himself endangered? A sort of, I didn’t want to but I had no choice attitude? All I’ve heard so far is a “I didn’t do anything wrong.” sentiment from him. A young man who doesn’t see anything wrong with taking someone’s life has a screw loose. With that attitude, if he finds himself on the firing end of a gun again, he might end up with a different outcome.
     
    #6984 purriwinkle, Nov 21, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  5. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Um. This guy was not a legitimate, trained, authorized or legally recognized officer or personnel. Just a punk with a chip and an AR-15. He is in no way comparable to our troops.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Why should we have police and court systems in place, when vigilantes are allowed to walk our streets.


    The truth is out there
     
  7. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    #6987 Sharpie61, Nov 21, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    If it was YOUR store that was burnt to the ground, I bet you'd see it as a black and white issue. The only reason you can call it "nuanced" is because it doesn't affect you personally. Calling for "nuance" when other people are suffering and you aren't demonstrates a lack of empathy for someone else's pain, IMO.

    Insurance. I wonder if you've ever known someone who had to deal with insurance companies after a loss, say having a car that got totaled or a sudden major medical problem... did the insurance policies they had *make them whole*? I'd bet most of these small businesses couldn't afford cadillac insurance policies, however, just like with auto or medical insurance and after struggling with no business income for months due to the covid shutdown I'd bet they don't necessarily have the 20 grand or whatever their copayment ends up being to have everything taken repaired or replaced -- even though they were "insured" at the time of the riot -- assuming they could still afford to have been insured at that time. That's something you might think of if you saw the situation in a "nuanced" way instead of a black and white one. Also, what about the feeling of being violated in the business you sunk your life into, and the fear these business owners will have in that neighborhood? How will even the best insurance policy make them whole for that?

    It wouldn't do you any good to be behind the doors of your establishment. Several videos are out there of gangs breaking through the front of a business and stealing everything inside even when the owner was inside at the time. Unless you had the foresight to be armed BEFORE the trouble started and at your business to protect it AND were willing to shoot those who broke inside you'd lose everything. Not that anyone would care for your pain or loss, they'd just say, "eh, that's why she has insurance". Heck, even if you were in your store and did shoot someone to stop looting, people like you and the media wouldn't take your side, you know. They'd say, "why did she have to murder those people, she has insurance, so it's not like it was a loss to her".

    On Kyle vs. being a licensed guard, cop, etc., it's YOU that don't get it, not me. The police were told to stand down and let the rioters riot! The businesses there were BEGGING people to help them because the proper authorities turned their back on them. Kyle is one of the people that answered that call, which makes him MORE of a responsible person than the government officials or the police or national guard at the time.The sad part is that if Kyle was a sworn police officer at the time he wouldn't have done a d@mn thing to help these people. The fact that he was willing to help when the police would not is a mark in his favor, IMO.

    My point about the soldiers is that these are young men who may be 17 or 18 years old just like Kyle who are told to go out and kill someone to protect the interests of the citizens of the US. When they come come back after doing so, they shouldn't be called killers, and neither should Kyle who was also acting to protect the interests of US citizens who were begging for help at the time in the face of a government that was refusing to help them.

    On Kyle's attitude... try actually putting yourself in his position before condemning him. Say that for whatever reason you were Kyle and for the past 2 years you've heard on the MSM how you were a white supremacist and a murderer, when to your mind, you weren't, you were an average teenager trying to do the right thing. Do you think you might be just a LITTLE bit defensive or unwilling to share how you really feel with the same people who were calling you a white supremacist and a murderer? And you don't know how Kyle is really handling killing those people, either. He probably is messed up inside, but has been derided by the media for so long he would be a fool to show them any weakness.
     
    #6988 Morgotha, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    He answered a call for help. That, at its most basic, is what a citizen or a soldier does.
     
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    If the police refuse to help citizens who need it, why have them? Why have a court system if it refuses to incarcerate offenders? These organizations are only worth having if they are actually DOING the job they were paid to do.
     
  11. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Then why allow vigilantism, if the cops and courts are doing their jobs.
    And why should we pay for cops if we can get the job done for free.


    The truth is out there
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we *should* allow vigilantism under normal circumstances. However, as I've said previously, these were NOT normal circumstances as the legitimate civilian authorities said they were NOT going to respond or help citizens in need. This, then, became a situation with NO societal law enforcement and it was up to the citizens to fend for themselves. In such a situation "vigilantism" isn't really vigilantism, it's the only form of law and order around.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    #6993 Morgotha, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The suspect in Waukesha is Daryl Brooks aka "Mathboi Fly" and did post about Rittenhouse. He has a long, long, LONG list of prior convictions, including violent felonies, and has a couple of open cases right now -- and is out on $500 bail. Why was this man still on the streets? When will it be appropriate to say the victims here would still be alive if the state was doing its job?

    " a link to his list of prior convictions is below. As a challenge for the day, do you have the patience to read all of them, or will you get half-way and give up, like I did?

    https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DOJ-WORCS.pdf
     
    #6994 Morgotha, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    On whether or not the police are doing their jobs, this is what the SF police chief had to say regarding shoplifters/looters:

    "
    "Some people calculate, 'Hey, you know, I don't want to go over the $950, so let me steal $949 worth of property,'" San Francisco Police Chief William Scott said earlier this year.

    "If it's a felony, our officers can take action," he added at the time. "But if it's a misdemeanor, that arrest has to be a private person's arrest. And that makes a difference because they have to be willing to do that.""

    Did that sink in? If someone steals less than $950 from you the police are going to tell you "you're on your own"! With that being the case one shouldn't be surprised if vigilantism starts becoming more frequent, as the police are saying flat out they aren't going to arrest the criminal for you. Heck, do you even call it "vigilantism" any more if the police delegate the responsibility of arresting the criminal to private individuals? Can't those same private individuals say they are now acting as agents of the state?

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/repeated-organized-flash-mob-robberies-san-francisco-security-experts
     
  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Here's a couple of racists protesting in Kenosha. The girl marching with her dad and carrying a dangerous assault rifle? is 16 years old. Also, it's kind of funny, but this guy is an older version of Rittenhouse. He shows up to protect people, and isn't a paid peace officer or anything like that. I wonder what his response will be if any felons start hitting him with a blunt object or point a gun in his face.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ouse-verdict/ar-AAR0eaz?ocid=hponeservicefeed
     
  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Look, let’s get something straight, right off the bat. I DO NOT condone looting and arson. They have no place in a social protest. I’m convinced there are those who have no affiliation with the cause whatsoever who use the marches to achieve their own agenda which is to cause as much damage as possible.

    Having said that, it’s not that I don’t feel empathy for small business people. I read a good NY Times article that talked about this very thing. It pointed out that many of these businesses are under insured, which is a problem. I don’t know what to say about that. I have never been a small business owner. If I was thinking of going in that direction I would sure as hell insure it for full value if not more. If you can’t do that maybe your business plan is flawed in that you don’t have enough capital to be in business. I have my properties insured to the nines.

    Considering the times, perhaps small business owners need full metal shutters that can be closed and locked at the end of the business day to prevent glass breakage, and/or people and objects from easy entrance into the building.

    I’ve looked in vain for an article that states the Kenosha police were told to stand down during the protests. Please provide a link because as @Sharpie stated, why even have a police force if they don’t do the job for which they were hired. I don’t believe that happened but if the mayor or someone in authority did that, I would think the people could have their say at election time.

    I reject your premise entirely that Kyle has the same authority as a US soldier. There is NO comparison. I haven’t heard soldiers being called killers since Nam and they didn’t deserve it then or now. Kyle’s situation is completely different. Vigilante citizens have no place in today’s society. I personally think he was used and is still being used by far right groups who don’t give a damn about him personally but see him as a cause celebre.

    * There are always those who dishonor the military. Going back to Nam for instance, you have William Calley and Mai Lai as an example. You find them in every war. Men like that are rotten apples who taint the whole barrel undeservedly. That’s why the military doesn’t need any more loose cannons, IMO.
     
    #6997 purriwinkle, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  18. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    This is a dangerous trend. If the “other” side decides to arm themselves similarity it’s a possibility it could get really bad. OTOH maybe both sides might embrace the principle of mutually assured destruction and chill a bit.
     
  19. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    He’s black, so he would get life in prison, or shot by the police. It’s Kenosha after all.
    And the Wisconsin laws on guns that I posted, clearly states that a minor CAN carry a weapon, as long as they are in the company of their guardian.
    Something that Rittenhouse didn’t have.


    The truth is out there
     
  20. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Rittenhouse’s lawyer stated that he thought that Gaetz, Goser, and Crawford were just using his client to further their political agenda. (They all claim they want Kyle to work for them). And they need to leave the kid alone.
    The lawyer also called Trump jr. an idiot, when he offered to give Rittenhouse an AR15.


    The truth is out there
     
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