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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

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  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    One never has the answer to a question at the time one asks it, what would be the point? An attitude in the State that accepted lawlessness would be a great reason to see crime rates increasing. What really is a "sanctuary city" except one where you aren't going to be prosecuted for your crime of being in the Country illegally? Wouldn't it make sense if people turned a blind eye to that that they might to other things too?
     
    #61 Morgotha, Apr 24, 2017
  2. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    You should look at the numbers again. They ranked cities according to the change in the crime rate, not the actual crime rate.

    Number 1 on the list is Oxnard, CA. Their crime rate changed from 2288 in years 2010-2012, to 3353 in years 2013-2015. That's an increase of 56.6%, putting them at the top.

    Number 5 on the list is Salt Lake City. Their crime rate changed from 8004 in years 2010-2012, to 9074 in years 2013-2015. That's an increase of 13.4%. Of the 35 cities on the list, Salt Lake City has the highest crime rate.

    Also, nowhere in that article are sanctuary cities mentioned. This site provides a map of sanctuary cities, counties, and states. Anyone who wishes to make the claim that sanctuary cities have more crime than non-sanctuary cities and/or have higher increases in crime rates should feel free to consult it and back up their hypothesis with facts.

    Salt Lake City is not a sanctuary city. Neither is Oxnard.

    Btw, Oxnard is located in Ventura County, which is not a sanctuary county.
     
    #62 westwingnut, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  3. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and she knows that. She's just trying to avoid having to admit it.

    And the next post is just more blah-blah-blah pretending that it's not just something she made up. Especially when one never has to answer the question that was asked, just keep making up facts and calling it a hypothesis.
     
    #63 tink, Apr 24, 2017
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  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Right. That was the point of the article, looking at cities where the crime rate was INCREASING, not the total crime rate for the region.

    And I bet if you lived in Oxnard, you'd notice a >50% increase in your crime rate more than a resident of salt lake city having about a >10% increase.
     
    #64 Morgotha, Apr 25, 2017
  5. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but before promulgating the theory that the increase was because my city, county or state was a sanctuary entity, I would first find out whether that was the case.
     
    #65 westwingnut, Apr 25, 2017
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  6. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see anywhere in the polls stating what type of person committed the crime. Or even what crimes were being committed.
    Stating that it could be because of sanctuary cities, is pure speculation on your part.
     
    #66 Sharpie61, Apr 25, 2017
  7. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    #67 surviving, Apr 25, 2017
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  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it's NOT the case, considering only a few of the cities are sanctuary cities, but crime is going up across the State. A more distilled expression of what I was trying to say is that the same attitude that leads people towards making sanctuary cities and now State is also leading to an increase in crime.
     
    #68 Morgotha, Apr 25, 2017
  9. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    Except that you claimed that California is a sanctuary state, which it isn't.

    The irony here is that if you had the time to back up your thinking with a little research, you would have found that many of the cities with higher crime rates may not be sanctuary cities, but they are located in sanctuary counties.
     
    #69 westwingnut, Apr 25, 2017
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    For someone who throws such a fit when you claim people put words in your mouth, you sure do like to claim people said things they didn't.

    Looking back at my second post, I said, "It's my hypothesis of the moment. One hears on the news that California wants to become a "sanctuary State", and the next moment the crime report comes out with California becoming progressively more dangerous to live in. Could be unrelated, might not be."

    What I said was California "wants to become" a "sanctuary State". You said I claimed they ARE a "sanctuary State". That is untrue. Try looking up "libel" in the dictionary next time.

    This isn't irony. County law (at least to my understanding) applies to the cities within it as well. They weren't giving a report by county, but by city, and the city would reflect the county it's in. Where's the irony?
     
    #70 Morgotha, Apr 26, 2017
  11. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Libel? You can't be serious.
     
    #71 tink, Apr 26, 2017
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  12. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    that was a good laugh
     
    #72 Jen7, Apr 26, 2017
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  13. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    And here is your first post on this subject:
    You posted a link to a study that referred to increasing crime rates in California, and made a reference to a "sanctuary State".

    My interpretation of your post was that you believed that California is a sanctuary state, and this status contributed to an increase in crime. I submit that that was a reasonable interpretation of your post.

    I further submit that you know that my interpretation was reasonable, since you didn't try to go back to your first post, but instead went back to your second post.

    That said, if you wish to clarify what you meant in your first post, feel free.

    Also, I have been known to clarify my remarks from time to time. See Post #72 in the Ice Age thread for an example.
     
    #73 westwingnut, Apr 26, 2017
  14. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    That I took the time to investigate the validity of your point, and you did not.
     
    #74 westwingnut, Apr 26, 2017
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I'm serious. Very serious. DEAD serious. Feel free to think of me as Sirius.
     
    #75 Morgotha, Apr 26, 2017
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  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It was NOT a reasonable interpretation since you didn't make your earlier post until AFTER my second post, meaning that even if you posted after reading my first post, when you kept reading you would have realized that was not what I meant, and could have corrected yourself before this current debate.

    You'll also notice that in my first post the Sanctuary State part is in a different sentence. Since you are always going on about the fine definitions of words, etc., you know that grammar means something. A sentence is an independent thought, and one sentence isn't conjoined to the preceding one.

    And the reason I went to my second post instead of the first was to avoid just this debate. I mean in 100% clear terms I stated California was NOT a Sanctuary State. That should have ended this.
     
    #76 Morgotha, Apr 26, 2017
  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    #77 Morgotha, Apr 26, 2017
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  18. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    #78 PepperAnn, Apr 26, 2017
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  19. zombiemom62

    zombiemom62 Well-Known Member

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    #79 zombiemom62, Apr 26, 2017
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  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Or if you did, I bet you'd get a LLLOOOTTT of (mostly unpleasant) attention!
     
    #80 Morgotha, Apr 26, 2017
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