Team Jesus v. Team Tara

Jen7 · Nov 10, 2017

zombie_basher said: ↑

What I love about this is that it brings the dilemma presented in Judge, Jury, Executioner back on a much larger scale. They were seriously stumped about what to do with just one guy, Randall, with Dale leading the argument for humanity. That entire debate has come roaring back. Remember the things they said?

Shane: "Look, say we let him join us, right? Maybe he's helpful, maybe he's nice. We let our guard down and maybe he runs off,brings back his 30 men."

Dale: "So the answer is to kill him to prevent a crime he may never even attempt? If we do this, we're saying there's no hope. Rule of law is dead, there is no civilization."

Then

Dale: "Is this what it's come to? We kill someone 'cause we can't decide what else to do with him? Blah blah...how are we any better than the people we're so afraid of?"

And I love it! Makes me feel like Dale lives on, and with this coupled with Glenn referencing him in Season 6, makes me happy. I love this whole kind of grey area, complex debate. And more I'd like to add.

After that debate with Dale, it was all about the loss of morality, hope, and civilization, descending further into darkness all the way until Alexandria. From that point on starting with Season 6 it's then slowly about starting to bring humanity and civilization back, regaining what was lost (which makes the Dale reference by Glenn, another moralistic character, quite fitting).

I mean, you have to realize these are supposed to be the good guys we're rooting for. They can't all be driven by hate, rage, and revenge, and it doesn't make sense for Jesus to be driven by these things because he hasn't suffered a huge major loss at the hands of the saviors like some of our other characters. He's pragmatic and calm, he knows the threat and danger of the saviors, but he hasn't been driven to a dark enough level to want them all dead (not yet anyway). You also have to realize, that due to the complexity of human nature, everything isn't black and white, there are shades of grey everywhere. Not everybody is purely good or purely evil. We see both good and evil in Rick. We see glimmers of empathy and humanity in Negan, who is seemingly on a redemption arc in the comics (According to Kirkman Issue 174 is about to confirm is Negan really is rehabilitated, which I am excited for). This is a theme the series has explored time and time again. Shane wasn't completely bad, Rick killing him I view as extremely necessary but also a damn tragedy and it rips my heart out. The Governor had a chance to come back and almost did, but he chose to jump off the deep end. Maggie even says to Tara in Season 6, talking about Glenn giving Nicholas a second chance, that she wanted to kill Nicholas but remembered that Tara was on the opposite side from them "on the worst day of her life." Do I need to go on? In short, it's proven that both sides happen; taking a risk and trusting the wrong person backfires, but other times it pays off.

I agree that the main flaw here though is that the subject of surrender should've been brought up before, but the premiere was too busy with its artsiness and poetic speeches to ever touch on it. But I atritbute that to the writers wanting this to be a surprise of sorts, an Uh Oh sort of moment for us. But I cannot wait to see what results, and what I'm really hoping to see is that BOTH sides end up right; maybe some saviors escape, and some cause trouble and death, while some end up as valuable allies.

Sorry for typing so much but this is a deep, complex issue that's worth more "than a 5 minute conversation" to quote Dale. I think the show would be boring if in All Out War our supposed heroes are just altogether bloodthirsty and murder everyone in their way no questions asked, and what's more, it factually wouldn't fit in line with themes the show has explored in the past and still does now.
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Thank you! This has been my favorite reply so far You put into words what I was thinking and couldn't really express very well.

I think no matter what opinion people agree with (Jesus or Tara) it's understandable and it's an interesting topic of discussion that goes way back to the beginning like you pointed out.

Dnae · Nov 10, 2017

zombie_basher said: ↑

What I love about this is that it brings the dilemma presented in Judge, Jury, Executioner back on a much larger scale. They were seriously stumped about what to do with just one guy, Randall, with Dale leading the argument for humanity. That entire debate has come roaring back. Remember the things they said?

Shane: "Look, say we let him join us, right? Maybe he's helpful, maybe he's nice. We let our guard down and maybe he runs off,brings back his 30 men."

Dale: "So the answer is to kill him to prevent a crime he may never even attempt? If we do this, we're saying there's no hope. Rule of law is dead, there is no civilization."

Then

Dale: "Is this what it's come to? We kill someone 'cause we can't decide what else to do with him? Blah blah...how are we any better than the people we're so afraid of?"

And I love it! Makes me feel like Dale lives on, and with this coupled with Glenn referencing him in Season 6, makes me happy. I love this whole kind of grey area, complex debate. And more I'd like to add.

After that debate with Dale, it was all about the loss of morality, hope, and civilization, descending further into darkness all the way until Alexandria. From that point on starting with Season 6 it's then slowly about starting to bring humanity and civilization back, regaining what was lost (which makes the Dale reference by Glenn, another moralistic character, quite fitting).

I mean, you have to realize these are supposed to be the good guys we're rooting for. They can't all be driven by hate, rage, and revenge, and it doesn't make sense for Jesus to be driven by these things because he hasn't suffered a huge major loss at the hands of the saviors like some of our other characters. He's pragmatic and calm, he knows the threat and danger of the saviors, but he hasn't been driven to a dark enough level to want them all dead (not yet anyway). You also have to realize, that due to the complexity of human nature, everything isn't black and white, there are shades of grey everywhere. Not everybody is purely good or purely evil. We see both good and evil in Rick. We see glimmers of empathy and humanity in Negan, who is seemingly on a redemption arc in the comics (According to Kirkman Issue 174 is about to confirm is Negan really is rehabilitated, which I am excited for). This is a theme the series has explored time and time again. Shane wasn't completely bad, Rick killing him I view as extremely necessary but also a damn tragedy and it rips my heart out. The Governor had a chance to come back and almost did, but he chose to jump off the deep end. Maggie even says to Tara in Season 6, talking about Glenn giving Nicholas a second chance, that she wanted to kill Nicholas but remembered that Tara was on the opposite side from them "on the worst day of her life." Do I need to go on? In short, it's proven that both sides happen; taking a risk and trusting the wrong person backfires, but other times it pays off.

I agree that the main flaw here though is that the subject of surrender should've been brought up before, but the premiere was too busy with its artsiness and poetic speeches to ever touch on it. But I atritbute that to the writers wanting this to be a surprise of sorts, an Uh Oh sort of moment for us. But I cannot wait to see what results, and what I'm really hoping to see is that BOTH sides end up right; maybe some saviors escape, and some cause trouble and death, while some end up as valuable allies.

Sorry for typing so much but this is a deep, complex issue that's worth more "than a 5 minute conversation" to quote Dale. I think the show would be boring if in All Out War our supposed heroes are just altogether bloodthirsty and murder everyone in their way no questions asked, and what's more, it factually wouldn't fit in line with themes the show has explored in the past and still does now.
Click to expand...

First things first - You are hereby and from this point forward required to participate in all matters Walking Dead on this forum. I will even read your posts if they are negative in nature because you seem like someone who would point out the flaws without resorting to the tired old argument of "bad writing" and all others that are regurgitated (believe me there are plenty that should have long ago been filed away in the been there said that drawer of the filing cabinet that is housed in the bowels of this forum).

Second thing - Wonderful insight and I agree with @Jen7, you touched on and very eloquently presented the argument that I wish I were able to have found the words for.

Third thing - Well this is just me begging but PLEASE post more often and join in the discussions. Hell I will even overlook it if you are a Daryl fan

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Team Jesus v. Team Tara

Whose team are you on?

Team Tara (the Saviors must die!)

Team Jesus (spare those who surrender, they know not what they do)

Jen7 Well-Known Member

Dnae Well-Known Member

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Battle Royale Forums

Team Jesus v. Team Tara

Whose team are you on?

Team Tara (the Saviors must die!)

Team Jesus (spare those who surrender, they know not what they do)

Jen7 Well-Known Member

Dnae Well-Known Member

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