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Terrorism

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    The Blue Wall definitely has cracks. Not all officers act like goons and those who do should be removed for giving law enforcement as a whole a black eye.

    https://apple.news/ABbFRBLHcT96j2pFVRSfVRw


    A Minnesota sheriff has broken his profession’s code of silence to blast the Minneapolis Police Department, saying he’s “disgusted” at the agency’s reportedly violent practices and calling for an overhaul of the agency from the “top down.”

    At a Wednesday meeting of an advisory council to the state’s Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) board, Sheriff Sean Deringer of Wright County unloaded on Minneapolis cops who were caught on their own body cameras allegedly “hunting” protesters in the wake of the murder of George Floyd in 2020. ”I was absolutely disgusted watching that,” Deringer said, adding, “I have defended that agency for the very last time.”

    In an extended rant, Derringer apologized to members of the advisory board: He said he was wrong to have dismissed public complaints that Minneapolis Police Department had been reportedly randomly shooting nonviolent protesters with beanbag rounds, pepper balls, flash grenades, and other less lethal munitions. He said his earlier reaction had been to defend his brothers in blue, making comments like: “Holy crap, everyone, that doesn’t happen. Cops do not do that.” But, then, Deringer said, he saw “bodycam footage of Minneapolis Police Department again making headlines. Because why? That’s exactly what they were doing!”


    Keep up the good work, Sheriff!
     
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    There's a special place in Hell set aside for the "people" that do things like this. If there's any justice, they'll be moving there soon.

    "A Kansas police chief said on "Fox & Friends" Wednesday a puppy belonging to one of their officers was killed in what investigators believe was a targeted attack.

    The officer with the Parsons Police Department was off-duty when she reported on Dec. 3 that her three-month-old German Shepherd puppy, Ranger, had been shot and beheaded. It's believed the attack was targeted because of the officer's law enforcement career.

    [​IMG]

    "She left her purebred German shepherd in a fenced backyard with water, food, outbuilding, and it was an unseasonably beautiful day here in Parsons, about 73 degrees outside. She went to lay down, caught some shut-eye, woke up, went outside and she found the carcass of her beautiful little puppy, the head had been severed, the head has not yet been recovered. And also we found the muzzle of the animal," said Parsons Police Chief Robert Spinks.

    Spinks said based on the crime scene it appeared that one or more individuals broke into the backyard, then took the puppy to another location. He said they believe the attackers broke into the officer’s home to leave the remains."

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/kansas-police-officer-dog-killed-beheaded-targeted-attack
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The first arrest was made in the mass shooting in Sacramento, CA where two people apparently decided to settle their dispute by shooting at each other, killing 6 and wounding 12.

    "
    The Sacramento Police Department said it arrested 26-year-old Dandrae Martin and charged him with assault and illegal firearm possession following an overnight investigation. Police described him as a "related suspect," but did not offer any additional detail about his alleged involvement.

    Police previously said at least two people opened fire in the downtown district as people streamed out of closing bars. Video showed people on the scene sprinting away from the gunfire. Sacramento police said preliminary processing of the scene indicated that at least three buildings and three vehicles had been hit by gunfire, and more than 100 shell casings were recovered from the area.

    When announcing Martin's arrest, police did not provide any information on the search for other suspects — though they said search warrants had been served at three residences and "at least" one handgun had been recovered.

    The Sacramento County Coroner on Monday identified the six people killed in the shooting as Johntaya Alexander, 21; Melinda Davis, 57; Sergio Harris, 38; Joshua Hoye-Lucchesi, 32; Yamile Martinez-Andrade, 21; and De'vazia Turner, 29."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...hat-killed-6-wounded-12/ar-AAVR34q?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A second arrest was made in the Sacramento, CA shooting, and it was the *brother* of the first suspect. He was wounded and in possession of a *machine gun*!:eek: What type of person takes a machine gun with them when they go out clubbing? This is starting to look less like violence breaking out after a spontaneous argument an more like preplanned violence, IMO.

    Oh, and I should point out that this person was already prohibited from carrying a weapon (likely meaning a felon) AND owning a machine gun without a special permit is already illegal, AND shooting someone is also illegal, so... adding more gun laws aren't going to deter people like this. He's knowingly breaking several existing laws already. The Death Penalty would stop him from repeating his crime, however.

    "
    Sacramento police have announced the arrest of a second suspect – the brother of the first suspect arrested Monday – in connection to the weekend mass shooting that left six dead and a dozen wounded.

    Smiley Martin, 27, was taken into custody Tuesday morning as he recovered at a hospital from injuries suffered during the gunfire that broke out in the city’s entertainment district early Sunday morning, the Sacramento Police Department said.

    Martin will be booked at the Sacramento County Main Jail for possession of a firearm by a prohibited person and possession of a machine gun once his medical treatment is finished, police said."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/sacramento-mass-shooting-second-suspect-arrested
     
    #164 Morgotha, Apr 5, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Gun violence in this country is a nasty problem. How much better if the the men who got in the argument just duked it out?
    It’s a combination of enforcing gun laws already on the books, including closing all loopholes and getting illegal guns off the streets. No one should be able to purchase fully automated firearms, IMO but now with the advent of “ghost guns” it’s harder than ever to keep weapons of this sort out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them. It’s like we’re reverting back to the “Wild West”.

    Even in the rural parts of my state we find things like this:

    https://www.whec.com/livingston-cou...sted-58-illegal-pistols-mount-morris/6436790/

    It’s a scourge and I say this even as our family are legal gun owners and are in possession of several legally purchased and registered firearms. We have always strived to be responsible gun owners and we are not happy with all this craziness.
     
    #165 purriwinkle, Apr 5, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    k
    Allowing the police to search people and actually do their job took 58 guns off the streets. Imagine how safe we'd be if our big cities followed suit and allowed the police to their job as well, and, of course, if the prosecutors were willing to actually try, convict, and imprison the criminals afterwards.

    I'm not really worried about ghost guns. Most of these street thugs aren't out there making their own assault rifles, they just want a pistol they can easily hide on their person.

    I think the problem could be effectively *solved* if we were to take a few... Draconian-ish steps. People would rather have the crime, though.
     
    #166 Morgotha, Apr 6, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  8. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    You know it’s funny but police here have always been able to do their job as far as I can tell. I’d like to think they’re getting better and smarter at it though. The man in the story I cited aroused the suspicion of the officers who had pulled him over for a routine traffic infringement. They searched the car, found the illegal firearms and no one was shot or injured. A win, win as far as I’m concerned. I don’t know what will happen judicially since the guy is Canadian but I hope they inform the public.

    Perhaps ghost guns aren’t a problem in your state but they’re making in roads in ours. Never fear, as you suggested, Draconian(?) measures were taken. My stance? If I have to properly register my firearms, and follow the rules, everyone else does too.

    https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/p...t-restrictions-ghost-guns-signed-law-governor
     
  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    So it's an important season for Christianity, Islam, and Judaism and the Palestinians decided to start throwing rocks at Israelis to start a violent confrontation. They got their wish.

    "
    Hours after the clashes began, the police announced that they had put an end to the violence and arrested "hundreds" of suspects. They said the mosque was re-opened and that Friday’s midday prayers would take place as usual. Tens of thousands of people were expected.

    Israeli authorities said they had earlier held negotiations with Muslim leaders to ensure calm and allow the prayers to take place, but that Palestinian youths hurled stones at police, triggering the violence. Palestinian witnesses, who spoke on condition of anonymity out of security concerns, said a small group of Palestinians threw rocks at police, who then entered the compound in force, setting off a wider conflagration."

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/clashes-erupt-at-jerusalem-holy-site-152-palestinians-hurt-report
     
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  11. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Makes one wonder who dropped the ball on this one. Law enforcement? He was a white boy from a “nice” family.
    From an ABC article:

    New York State Police said in a statement Sunday that troopers responded on June 8, 2021, to Susquehanna High School in Conklin to investigate a report that a 17-year-old student had made a threatening statement. The incident resulted in no criminal charges, but the student was taken into custody for a mental health evaluation.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/reported-mass-shooting-upstate-york-tops-supermarket/story?id=84721175

    Compare this with what happened to Abigail Hernandez, a developmentally disabled Hispanic girl who was brought to this country as a three yr. old but never naturalized. She’s been in detention for 4yrs!

    From an article in the Progressive magazine:
    Prior to Hernandez’s arrest four years ago, she had no run-ins with law enforcement. When she made her threatening post, she had already been transferred to a vocational program at another Rochester school and was upset that former friends were making fun of her.

    U.S. District Judge Michael Telesca, in his 2019 order for a new bond hearing for Hernandez, noted that she told her probation officer that she had “no intention of following through on the threat” and, at the time, did not understand the consequences of her actions.

    Profiling much by law enforcement? If they had done their job similarly in Conklin, as they did in Rochester, 10 people would still be alive.

    The shooter was also in possession of an illegal (for NY) high capacity magazine for his firearm.

    From the Rochester D&C:

    The semi-automatic weapon was modified with an illegal magazine, Gov. Kathy Hochul said Sunday.

    New York bars the sale of any magazine that has a capacity over 10 rounds.

    Hochul said law enforcement was working to determine where the magazines used were acquired, but observed they could be purchased as close as Pennsylvania.
    https://www.democratandchronicle.co...rchased-vintage-firearms-endicott/9786647002/

    Kid said he was radicalized on social media. Maybe he has some intellectual deficiencies to be taken in like that but his life is ruined now. Wonder what his family has to shoulder now as well. Who would let their child with his history acquire and possess firearms while he was under their roof?

    How sad that the victims, who were doing nothing more than trying to buy groceries, were mowed down by a white supremacist. My condolences to the families.
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    You're seriously saying the Tops shooter is being treated differently than Hernandez because of *racism*? Unbelievable. The reason Hernandez was arrested and is still in custody is that she's an illegal alien and ICE has been trying to deport her. For three *years*. People keep filing appeals on her behalf, which is the reason she's still in custody in the US and not free in Mexico, not "racism".

    With the Tops shooter, otoh, he's a citizen and hence our problem. If we could have deported him years ago we probably would have.

    You know who I blame for all these crazies out there? The far left. It was back in the mid 60's-70's that secondary to leftist activisim the courts decided the State shouldn't be locking up the mentally ill. Fast forward to today, and those mentally ill people are out on the streets inflicting harm on society.
     
    #172 Morgotha, May 17, 2022
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  13. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Abigail can me to this country at the age of three and had DACA status. Her family is here in this country. She doesn’t belong in Mexico and couldn’t survive there on her own due to diminished mental capacity….she’s not mentally ill and had been enrolled in a special education vocational program. She needs to be here with her family.
    https://www.democratandchronicle.co...co-deportation-immigrant-andreatta/739454002/

    As for Payton, yes, he is our problem as well. Brought up presumably in a middle class environment with all the advantages that brings. No evidence of diminished mental capacity but no doubt brainwashed with extremist ideology. Unlike Abigail who had no access to weapons, this kid was armed to the teeth for an 18 yr. old AND modifying his weapons to make them illegal in NY. Where was his family? After his brush with the law, you tell me why NY’s Red Flag Law wasn’t used to keep him from buying weapons. That’s obviously gotta be tweaked. I know officials are looking into how he was able to purchase those weapons.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...rt-buffalo-mass-shooting-went-wrong-rcna29054
    Enacted in 2019, New York’s red flag law empowers school administrators, law enforcement officials, prosecutors and family members to pursue court intervention when they believe they know someone who is at high risk of harming themselves or others.

    Under the law, a judge could “very quickly” issue an extreme-risk protection order, which could order someone, a minor or an adult, to surrender any firearms, as well as not to try to have or buy any.

    And yes, the RFL would/could be used to keep Abigail from purchasing any weapons as well.
     
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    With Abagail, you're putting the cart before the horse. Her mother brought her here illegally, her mother should have her green card revoked/not renewed and can go with her back to Mexico. Abagail would have an instant caregiver, free of charge to our government. It might sound harsh, but EVERYONE has a sad story to tell. If you open the borders to anyone with a sad story, you open the border to everyone. We can't afford to provide for everyone in the world who wants us to. BTW, a green card holder (like the mother's husband reports her to be) can get green cards for their dependent children as well. Why didn't she? Regardless of where the girl has been living, she's a Mexican citizen and the Mexican government is responsible for her (after her parents), not us.

    And you know, Abagail DID threaten to shoot up her school, perhaps keeping her locked up has saved the lives of a lot of young people.

    On Payton, I bet once the situation cools down a bit and someone really examines him he'll be found to be a developing schizophrenic. He's at the right age. OTOH, maybe he is just a racist. He's a killer in any event, and it's too bad he lives in NY where he can only get "life without parole" and not the death penalty. I don't know why he wasn't flagged from getting gun purchases. If you aren't going to flag someone who threatens violence at their school, who ARE you going to flag as being terrorist threats? Republicans? Christians?
     
  15. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I imagine only if they start threatening gun violence against others but I'd bet money that Payton was both a Christian and a Republican.
     
  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    How much money? Nope, you're off by a bit. In his own words:

    On religion?

    "He said he wasn’t Christian, writing, “No. I do not ask God for salvation by faith, nor do I confess my sins to Him. I personally believe there is no afterlife. I do however believe in and practice many Christian values.”

    His politics?

    "…When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old highschool and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist."

    So... Atheist, Left wing.

    Typical. Eh, well, hopefully you'll recognize your own biases in this regard.

    https://heavy.com/news/payton-gendron/
     
    #176 Morgotha, May 18, 2022
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Nope…based on the fact that I know the area in which his family resides, the majority of the people are of a member of a church which would fall under the category of Christian. From his statements, he comes from a Christian family no doubt because he knows all about Christianity but rejects part of it’s tenets.

    I took a chance on the party affiliation since where Conklin is located is considered a mixed liberal/conservative area but is not far from the Pennsylvania border which in this area of Pennsylvania is very conservative.

    I’m not surprised however to read that as a young man he was trying to find his own ways but he also said he was radicalized by far right rhetoric.

    From the NY Post:
    Conklin is a sleepy community of about 5,000 people on the Susquehanna River just north of the Pennsylvania border in Broome County and 10 miles south of Binghamton. The population is 95.7 percent white, according to Census estimates.

    I would also conjecture that he he didn’t meet many people of different faiths or races growing up where he did. Social media became his source of information.

    The authoritarian “left” is a joke…a misnomer. Long article but informative:

    https://www.salon.com/2021/08/14/re...g-authoritarianism--but-theres-no-such-thing/
     
  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    That Salon article was AWFUL! She starts out by defining any dictator as being right wing and democracy as left wing and then goes on to "prove" that even when rulers claim to be left wing they really are right wing because by her definition they have to be? Circular reasoning much? So some lefty that leads a left-wing guerrilla band and kills the local rich on behalf of the left suddenly switches sides and becomes right wing when they themselves take over? o_O She also claims without proof that right wing ideas are harmful to society while left wing ones are beneficial? Based on WHAT?

    If I was that student's high school teacher and that paper came to my desk I'd give it an "D". Well, a "D+" if her spelling and punctuation were correct.

    I never understood why people like the author get so excited over communism/socialism. America already HAS a Democracy where the proletariat get their say. And the whole Robin Hood "take from the evil rich and give to the virtuous poor" sounds pretty good to someone in college, but sounds much less so when they are coming after YOUR assets and giving them not to the virtuous poor, but to themselves. That really is the sticking point of communism, once "the people" take over the new system gets run run by people who are just as self-centered, lazy, and greedy as the people they replaced. And since your author quotes animal farm in her article, Orwell himself expressed that sentiment as well, and better than I was able to:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”"

    On the killer, he might come from a Christian family, but doesn't believe himself. That makes him NOT a Christian by anyone's standard. On his politics, he considers himself left wing. What do you base saying he isn't, on? That you don't want him in your camp?
     
    #178 Morgotha, May 18, 2022
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  19. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I will agree that even I lost patience when reading that article, lol but I thought it was a great demonstration on how the fluidity of descriptive nomenclature for political ideology can be down right confusing.

    He said, “I would prefer to be called a populist”…. From Britannica (hopefully more succinct than the salon article,lol)

    In its contemporary understanding, however, populism is most often associated with an authoritarian form of politics. Populist politics, following this definition, revolve around charismatic leaders who appeal to and claim to embody the will of the people in order to consolidate their own power. In this personalized form of politics, political partieslose their importance, and elections serve to confirm the leader’s authority rather than reflect the different allegiances of the people. Some forms of authoritarian populism have been characterized by extreme nationalism, racism, conspiracy mongering, and scapegoating of marginalized groups, each of which served to consolidate the leader’s power, to distract public attention from the leader’s failures, or to conceal from the people the nature of the leader’s rule or the real causes of economic or social problems.

    If he wants to be considered a populist, alright then, but by the above definition most people today would consider that to be associated with ultra conservative politics.

    As for being a Christian? Hmmmm….if one is baptized into the faith, you are a Christian. You might not be a very good one, lapsed, non practicing or declare yourself not to believe anymore. However, unless the church has excommunicated, disassociated, shunned (or whatever term your Christian church uses) you, or you have formally converted into another religion, I would imagine that if truly repentant any pastoral servant would welcome the sinner back into the fold….Christ looking for the lost lamb and all. Doesn’t mean you don’t have pay consequences but one should be able to receive the sacraments behind bars.

    Kid believes there is a God but doesn’t ask anything from him or believe in an afterlife? Says he even believes in and practices Christian values? Well, the one thing we can be sure of is that one he doesn’t believe in is, Love thy neighbor. :confused:
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The other trouble with political labels is; who gets to do the labeling? Our friends get painted in a much more favorable light than our foes, and in a case like this it's easy to find any reason to define him as someone who is "not us".

    On him being a populist, I like Britannica's definition, but would myself generally define a populist as an authoritarian politician who claims to represent the people in their struggle against a perceived elite. I definitely think that being an authoritarian is part of populism, as one would have to be an egomaniac to think that their personal views are really the expression of the will of the people. I don't think this is tied with a political right or left though, as Trump could be said to be a right wing populist representing the conservative people against a liberal establishment, while at the same time someone like Hugo Chavez or AOC could be said to be left-wing populists enacting left-wing socialist values on a more conservative establishment. I do NOT think conservatism, per se, has anything innately to do with populism, but think it's more a power-grab from someone with colossal personal arrogance.

    I didn't hear where the kid said he believed in God. If he does, that's a hopeful sign. The trouble for him is it doesn't matter what anyone else believes about him, the fate of his soul depends on what HE believes and what HE does. Christ will give mercy and forgiveness to those who ask for it, but if he doesn't WANT that? He'd better hope they bury him in asbestos undies.

    I suppose that's why I hope the kid is schizophrenic. God only holds us accountable for what we are in control of, and if the kid's brain is scrambled, he may not be accountable for his actions (in the big scheme of things). He still should be locked up here on Earth, but perhaps his soul will still be saved.
     
    #180 Morgotha, May 19, 2022
    Last edited: May 19, 2022

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