I don't think that all the preparation in the world could have had them ready to handle a blast from that tank. Rick was never the guy that seemed to focus on beefing up security anyways. That was Shane. Shane would have been that guy that was out digging that trench around the perimeter that could have at least stopped it from getting to the fences. Rick just didn't have to kind of mind it would have taken to face someone like Gov at that point. If he had then he would have realized that the devil was in front of him at their meeting and killed him then.

 

Right, because Rick wasn't an adult with free will or anything. Hershel used mind control potion over him. Alcoholics aren't at fault. Its that damn bartender.

 

So that's what was inducing all of those hallucinations.

 

I think those actually came from wiping his ass with skunk cabbage.

 

Mothers & fathers everywhere, can rejoice - it's not their fault!

Damn you, Hershel

 

While I do somewhat agree that Hershel started Rick down the path of farmerdom, he had the right reasons. I think killing jody was the right call. But it was way too easy for Carl. And when killing becomes easy, that's when good people can become bad people. So, he had Rick and Carl start farming and in the end it did help rebuild Carl's humanity. However, like Leonardo dicaprio's first inception on Mol, the idea grew in Rick's head to an extent further than even Hershel intended it to. In the end there, even Hershel was telling Rick he had to carry his gun.

however, there's not much that any version of pre-416 Rick could've done against a tank and a militia. Only Bitch Carol could've saved them from that.

 

It's Mr and Mrs Grimeys fault for doing the rumpy-pumpy one night which ended in Rick Grimes being conceived. Duh.

 

Hershel was just excreting Rick to become cheese sticks, no fault in that :zombies_lol:

 

I kinda like it when you get sassy passy. I wonder if you roll your eyes too?

 

Cheese (dairy products) is a necessary nutrient for everyone's daily diet. If one is allergic to dairy products there are other options. But yeah, example if I was allergic to hard boiled eggs and had a bad reaction, what should I blame it on? Hunt down the hen that laid those eggs in a chicken factory out there somewhere? It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack!

 

I'm so happy to see somebody else holds my view of Hershel. Was beginning to think I was out of it for never understanding the fandom's Hershel-love. I've seen Hershel as an out of touch character from the beginning and as an influence that weakened Rick. I totally agree that had Hershel not turned Rick into a pacifist and deflected him from defending the prison, it wouldn't have been lost. Maybe if Hershel and the council had provided some leadership that included self-defense and preparation, it would have been different. Why Rick listened to Hershel is beyond me. Hershel led that prison down the primrose path of his pre-ZA delusional pacifist mentality and he (along with those who -- a bit self interested -- called him a great leader) caused the loss of the prison.

 

But if Hershel talked Rick down, Carl would be completely insane or dead, Michonne would probably not be with the group, neither would any of the others.

 

Yeah Carl was well on his way to becoming a little Psycho-Shane.

 

There were many other methods that could have been used to reel Carl back in without weakening the group's leadership in the process. I respected Rick having to take a break from sole leadership after Lori died, but considering that he ended up having to tel, Carl that he had to be cold in order to survive anyways it was a poor decision on his part. He should have at least remained a part of the council. He is the one that stated that it's his group to lead at the end of season 2. In their world that's a pretty strong oath and to abandon that completely to handle an issue that could have easily been handled without having to abandon the post that he himself took on was not necessary amd really weakened the group.

 

The group needs farmers though. Say you've got 12 people, each eating 2000 calories a day. 24000 calories overall each day they need. As and example, a can of chili or something might be worth 500? that's 48 cans of chili per day, or over 1400 a month, or 17000/year. Without hunting and farming how long would your fortified prison last before all the surrounding area was cleaned out and everyone starved?

Unless they found my pantry and didn't mind canned lima beans from 1990, not that long. Herschel was giving him good advice as far as it goes. Had there not been a band of Vikings next door, they probably would have had a nice, prosperous, community. But raiders seem to exist everywhere, don't they?

 

Out of curiosity, I wondered how many calories one could get out of a pig overall, which is something I've never though of before. http://lovelivegrow.com/how-much-meat-from-a-pig/ This site reports that for a 300 lb pig, at the end of the day you end up with about 144 lbs of meat. Pork is ~650-725 calories/lb., so going with 675, that would be about 120,000 calories/pig. So one pig could feed a group of 10 for about 5 days.

This brings up the Terminite folks. Apparently in pigs about 48% of the live weight is usable meat. If post za you put an average weight of men and women combined at ~150 lbs, and figuring twenty people in Terminus as a WAG, their caloric need would be about 40k calories/d, and each average person would yield about 72 lbs of meat, or 49k calories. So basically to live off that meat they'd be chopping someone up every day or two! That's a LOT of people to be going through!

Unless the math is off

 

It wasn't all Hershel's fault. He has good intentions. He was trying to keep things stable at the prison. There is nothing wrong with farming and wanting there to be a fresh food supply available. Rick may have lost himself but the Governor was coming for that prison regardless. I am now ready to see what is in store for February.

 

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Yes, the group needs farmers -- that means Hershel, Maggie, Beth -- not a neophyte cop training as a farmer along with his teenage son as a sole helper. It means making some of the additional 60 or so survivors in that prison get off their butt, out of their cell block, and getting out there with Rick pulling weeks, planting, learning to farm. It means Hershel and his farmer daughters getting off their butts, getting out there planting, weeding, and teaching the rest. With the possible exception of the complete absence of look-outs or any effort whatsoever to develop a defense for the prison if attacked, I cannot think of anything more incompetent than the prison turning agriculture over to a single neophyte, with the occasional Hershel advice, while the rest of them sat on their butts in the prison. It was just ridiculous. I agreed with every single word Carl screamed at Rick while he was unconscious in the aftermath of the fall of the prison (except his "I was wrong" apology). Carl wasn't wrong -- he was spot on.