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Time for Trump to go

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    From your article:

    "
    US oil companies don’t follow those types of nationally mandated production targets. But they have been reluctant or unable to resume producing oil at pre-pandemic levels amid concerns about the prospect of tougher environmental rules that could cut future demand. Many of those tougher rules have been scaled back or failed to become law.


    “The Biden administration is suddenly interested in more drilling, not less
    ,” said Robert McNally, president of consulting firm Rapidan Energy Group. “People are more worried about high oil prices than anything else.”

    It takes time to scale up production, particularly when oil companies are facing the same supply chain and hiring challenges as thousands of other US businesses.

    “They can’t find people, and can’t find equipment,” McNally added. “It’s not like they’re available at a premium price. They’re just not available.”"


    IOW, *Biden's policies and regulations* told big oil that they were going to regulate them out of business, so the oil companies scaled back rather than expanded. Now they can't suddenly start the machinery up because Brandon doesn't like the price of gas.

    "
    Not only is oil production lagging behind pre-pandemic levels, there’s also less US refining capacity. Today, about 1 million fewer barrels of oil a day are available to be broken into gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum-based products.

    State and federal environmental rules are prompting some refineries to switch from oil to lower carbon renewable fuels. And some companies are closing older refineries rather than invest the money it would cost to retool to keep them operating, especially with massive new refineries set to open overseas in Asia, the Middle East and Africa in 2023."


    Again, Biden and the Dems' policies and regulations have consistently told big oil they aren't wanted, and the US is suffering as a result.


    Something else, the US hasn't built a major refinery since 1977, over 40 years ago! Idiots in California are suing to stop a refinery from reopening in Bakersfield even AFTER the refinery jumped through all the hoops to get approved by the .gov.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=29&t=6

    https://earthjustice.org/news/press...bakken-crude-into-california-s-central-valley

    I can't believe anyone would seriously deny that US government regulations and attitude are seriously inhibiting our oil production resulting in higher prices. We have both the oil and natural gas to where we shouldn't be suffering as a nation at all. It's our own government that's hurting us.

    How about nuclear plants, seeing as how we need electricity and will need more of it when all our cars, etc. are electric. Well, we get about 20% of our power from nukes. There was only ONE plant built in the last 10 years, and the next newest is over 25 years old. These plants have a lifespan of 25-40 years, so... figure in the next 20 years or so we're going to be losing 10-20% of our electrical generating capacity. That's what I don't get about the left wing people, you seem to think everything we depend on is bad, and your only idea for what to do is to say things we rely on should be shut down. I guess that's why Biden is so buddy-buddy with China, if we are going to have to ramp up solar power from 3% of our energy to 20%, that's going to require a LOT of solar panels! And batteries, of course, as solar is only generating during the day.

    "The newest reactor to enter service is Tennessee’s Watts Bar Unit 2, which began operation in June 2016. The next-youngest operating reactor is Watts Bar Unit 1, also in Tennessee, which entered service in May 1996. The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) licenses U.S. commercial nuclear reactors for 40 years.

    https://colors-newyork.com/when-was-the-last-nuclear-power-plant-built-in-the-united-states/
     
  2. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Of course you would pick up on that one point out of the whole article and ignore the rest as if that’s the only reason gas prices are high. Lol. Infrastructure problems and relaxed environmental standards under the prior administration did nothing apparently to make us independent from foreign oil. Biden’s only been in office one year and these problems preceded him. What about these points from the article:

    But remember that oil is bought and shipped around the world through a global commodities market. So in that sense it doesn't really matter who specifically is getting crunched by the loss of Russian oil, because lower supply affects those global prices no matter what. And as we know from Econ 101, when there's less supply of an item in demand, prices rise.

    When pandemic-related stay-at-home orders around the world crushed demand for oil in the spring of 2020, oil plunged, briefly trading at negative prices. OPEC and its allies, including Russia, agreed to slash production as a way to support prices. Even when demand returned sooner than expected, they kept production levels low.

    Oil and gas companies do not want to drill more," said Pavel Molchanov, an analyst at Raymond James. "They are under pressure from the financial community to pay more dividends, to do more share buybacks instead of the proverbial 'drill baby drill,' which is the way they would have done things 10 years ago. Corporate strategy has fundamentally changed."

    Quite frankly, maybe it’s time to wean off the oil and gas since it’s not ONLY the prospect of tighter environmental regulation which IMO is not a bad thing. Who’s against a cleaner environment?

    State and federal environmental rules are prompting some refineries to switch from oil to lower carbon renewable fuels. And some companies are closing older refineries rather than invest the money it would cost to retool to keep them operating, especially with massive new refineries set to open overseas in Asia, the Middle East and Africa in 2023."

    Oil stocks have generally lagged the broader market over the last two years, at least until the recent run-up in prices. Oil company executives wanted to redirect cash to buying back stock and other ways to help their share price rather than increase production.

    And major US refineries have yet to return to full operation after two were damaged by hurricanes last year and another by an explosion.

    These are problems that will not be remedied by opening another segment of Keystone. It’s simplistic to say, it’s all Biden’s fault. Not only that, but if people had cooperated with measures meant to get us out of the grip of COVID sooner maybe there would have been less of a problem with staffing and supply chain issues as well. We stand at a pivotal moment in history.

    Wasn’t that the point of the Infrastructure bill which passed with bi-partisan support as to helping us provide alternate energy sources? As stated in regards to this….

    ‘Upgrade our power infrastructure to deliver clean, reliable energy across the country and deploy cutting-edge energy technology to achieve a zero-emissions future. According to the Department of Energy, power outages cost the U.S. economy up to $70 billion annually. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal’s more than $65 billion investment includes the largest investment in clean energy transmission and grid in American history. It will upgrade our power infrastructure, by building thousands of miles of new, resilient transmission lines to facilitate the expansion of renewables and clean energy, while lowering costs. And it will fund new programs to support the development, demonstration, and deployment of cutting-edge clean energy technologies to accelerate our transition to a zero-emission economy.’
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...act-sheet-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/

    There’s always going to be some oil and gas consumption but let’s start going forward rather than keep regressing. Provided Putin doesn’t push us into WWIII, which will upset the whole apple cart, we should come out better. In the meantime people gonna bitch.
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    No one has said they didn't want to keep going forward. The point is that it makes no sense to stop using one fuel source until you have another that can replace it.

    If the .gov wants to incentivize people and companies to use alternative energy? Fine! But to say "we want alternative energy now so we're going to stop using oil even though we can't currently run the country without it"? Madness.
     
  4. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Oh Mo, lol Madness???? You're becoming the forum's Larry David, lol!



    No one's asking them to invent the wheel. Don't tell me they don't already have the technology to create new means of energy delivery. They have scientists and engineers working for them, right? You mean to say they haven't planned for a future where traditional oil and gas will go the way of coal? They have the money to invest in plants all over the country. Of course it starts out small but that's the way it is when new technologies develop. They exist simultaneously until the new phases out the old. Just start already.
     
  5. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Very little shocks me anymore but it really disappointed me to see Larry David shilling for crypto. The guy is not one of these celebrities short on cash. His net worth is almost half a billion and whenever he feels like doing another season of Curb Your Enthusiasm, HBO is ready to go.
     
  6. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Well put Purr. From some reason i cant quote posts anymore. Mo you are acting like Dems want to shut off oil with no alternatives ready. NO ONE is suggesting that. The transition to clean energy involves PROGRESSING towards it. Flat out rejecting it then claiming its not ready is big oil propaganda. Obama pointed us in the right direction and the orange menace rolled back initiatives. Republicans demand we stay reliant on oil and are now somehow blaming Biden for us being reliant on oil. What? Im pretty sure we were using oil before Biden took office. Oil companies can take cues from the Presidents decisions but are ultimately responsible for their own. Labor shortage is one issue but if they haven’t upgraded their facilities or built new refineries for decades, that means they didn’t do that under the oil friendly rump either. Sounds less like reacting to a guy who’s only been in office for a year and more like blaming him for their poor planning. They chased short term profits instead of long term infrastructure. It bit them on the ass.


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  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It turns out that I like Larry David in pretty much everything, including, it turns out, a commercial! Uh oh... that sounds like I'm becoming a fan!

    And a lot of people have the money to invest in these new plants and just as much experience running an alternative energy plant as an oil company does. If they are guaranteed moneymakers, why aren't they investing in a sure thing like a utility?
     
    #32907 Morgotha, Mar 14, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Dems don't want to cut off oil? Look back to what Biden has said. 1. that we will all die if we don't quit using fossil fuels and 2. he wants to start putting people who work for oil companies *in jail*. If that isn't someone trying to stop oil use, what is? That's not oil company propaganda, those are Biden's own words.

    https://thepoliticalinsider.com/biden-channels-aoc-were-all-dead-if-we-dont-jail-fossil-fuel-execs/

    And other than putting tariffs on Chinese solar panels, what did Trump do that hurt alternative energy? Anything you can point to, or are you just assuming Trump did something bad because... Trump! ?

    On the oil companies, remember that the conventional wisdom before Trump was that the population had shifted and there would never again be a Republican Congress. No surprise then that the oil companies weren't expanding but rather playing defense. With Biden and the socialists in office now? They'd be crazy to spend their money until they knew what Big Brother would accept.
     
  9. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    “We have to set sort of guide rails down now, so between the years 2021 and 2030, it’s irreversible – the path we set ourselves on,” he claimed. “One of which is doing away with any substance for fossil fuels – number one.”

    “Number two, holding them liable for what they have done,” Biden said of those executives helping to provide the leading source of fuel in our nation.
    “Particularly in those cases where your underserved neighborhoods and – you know the deal, okay. And by the way, when they don’t want to deliver, put them in jail,” he said, adding, “I’m not joking about this.”


    From your article Mo. Biden’s words. Set an irreversible path over the next nine years to move away from fossil fuels. Arrest oil execs who don’t comply. He doesn’t say all fossil fuels stop in nine years just set the path for the eventuality. Hold execs accountable if they refuse to “deliver”. I’m taking that as meeting benchmarks like the ones Obama set. All very reasonable.


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  10. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Dump also increased rent to green energy sources on public land while giving rent breaks to oil companies on public land. Nobody was saying Republicans couldn’t get elected before him. HE was saying it and of course proved himself wrong by getting elected. Now Republicans and changing voting laws so they can change the results if they lose. They are literally trying to appoint Republicans to oversee which gets get thrown out in at the state level.


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  11. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced to go into crypto because of this advertisement but it made me laugh just the same. There must be big money in commercials since I see a lot of big names making them. Colin Jost and Scarlett Johansson's 'if Alexa could read minds' was pretty funny too.
     
  12. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, it was an extremely well done, funny commercial. That had to be a big money too because there were numerous scenes with different time periods etc. Had to take a long time to complete.
     
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  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    :eek::rolleyes:! Biden said they want to DO AWAY with fossil fuels, your interpretation of that was that he wanted to MOVE AWAY from fossil fuels. Before we go any further, are you a native speaker of English? If not, it's understandable that you wouldn't understand the difference between these expressions, and I'd be happy to explain. OTOH, if you ARE a native speaker of English you know dang well your "interpretation" of Biden's words is much different that the actual meaning of his words.

    And adding in that he will arrest oil company executives? That's reasonable? :eek::eek:
     
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of this. Can you give me an example of what green companies are on public land? Oil wells on public land are one thing, but what green companies are there? solar farms? wind farms? Also, what were they paying *before* said changes? Was it a case of the green farms getting their land "for free" and the oil companies paying through the nose, and now they both are paying something but the oil companies are still paying more?

    The .gov has a right to get *some* revenue from green plants on our land, after all.
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It was a LONG skit, too, much longer than the average commercial on broadcast television.
     
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  16. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Lol. I do have trouble with english when I’m tired even though its my native tongue. Do away and move away are saying the same thing in this instance. No longer use fossil fuels. We can agree thats what he’s saying right? But you keep injecting an immediate cut off date which he in no way does. Arresting execs that don’t comply with regulations. Thats kind of how laws work. Even now, If a company violates emissions laws they are fined. If they are ordered to violate emissions standards by an executive, the executive is held legally accountable.


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  17. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to link an article with that postI. I was having trouble posting anything at that time. I will see if i can find it again.


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  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Although you don't believe it, many Dems want that end date to be *today*. And backing me up on this seem to be the House Dems who even in the wake of today's record-setting gas prices are seeking to ban all drilling on Federal lands. I doubt even Biden can't see the fallout from this, so it likely won't happen, but this is what they *want*, and as I was saying above, it's a darn good signal to the oil companies NOT to invest in anything in this country.

    "
    Progressive Democrats in the House of Representatives are reportedly planning to publicly urge President Biden to ban oil drilling on federal lands amid record gas prices and a war in Ukraine that has disrupted oil markets.

    According to a report from Politico, the Congressional Progressive Caucus is planning to demand that Biden use his executive power to declare climate change an emergency and ban drilling on federal lands."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ho...mate-emergency-ban-oil-drilling-federal-lands
     
  19. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Or they could invest in the future by developing green energy but they cant export that. They could of as you said built refineries over the last 77 years when there was a republican president but they didn’t. They painted themselves into a corner. They will wait for the next Republican president and continue to do business as usual. Biden isn’t the first Democratic president.


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  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    They've tried. As an example from today, Pennsylvania companies cancelled production of a natural gas pipeline because of ... trouble getting permits from the government. This is said to be a big deal because Pennsylvania produces *twice* the natural gas than Russia was going to be exporting through their Nord 2 pipeline to Germany.

    Think how amazing it would be if the Dems didn't hate the oil companies and the United States was the one exporting natural gas to the world instead of Russia.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/ukraine-and-defeating-putin-pennsylvania
     

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