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What Carol said..

Discussion in 'Episode 608 - Start To Finish' started by ChrisQ, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. ChrisQ

    ChrisQ Member

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    Carol told Morgan (and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't remember the exact quote):

    "I'm going to kill you and then I'm going to kill him (the captive Wolf) - because I don't want to see any more people die!"

    Am I the only one that was like WTF? Did Carol even listen to what she herself just said? Or is she so far gone she doesn't realize how absurd and self-contradicting she's being.

    I really don't like the confrontation between Morgan and Carol. It's seem to forced and stilted. You have two extreme, impractical viewpoints: Morgan, who seems to deliberately blind that they are in the midst of a life and death struggle. And then you have Carol, who wants to kill anyone she *thinks* *might* be a threat to the group.
     
  2. Zed Sanford

    Zed Sanford Member

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    I'd say her killing Karen and David and wanting to kill Pete (before he killed Reg) were worse offenses. She might need Morgan's help to survive the immediate horde threat, but other than that, I find her mindset somewhat justified in that moment.
     
  3. sheryden

    sheryden Member

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    She sees both Morgan and the Wolf as threats, and she had good reason to think that. The Wolves killed a lot of Alexandrians, and they did it in an extremely brutal manner. So it's reasonable of Carol to conclude that this Wolf would do the same thing if given the chance. And Morgan nearly got Rick killed when he let those Wolves go (and disabled Rick's means of leading away the herd). He also brought the town's only doctor--who seems to have zero fighting experience--into a dangerous situation, and then just left her down there with a maniac. So in Carol's mind, they are both threats, and if she eliminates the threats, her friends and neighbors will be safer. So no, I don't see it as a contradiction. Carol is very matter-of-fact.
     
  4. batongal

    batongal Active Member

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    If you watch that scene again, Carol doesn't even seem to believe what she's saying. The woman seems to be on the edge of a breakdown.
     
  5. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is how I take that scene as well. It seems that she is 'extreme emotionally unstable' (due to concussion?).
     
  6. batongal

    batongal Active Member

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    I've seen this posted before but when did she get the concussion? I missed something. I saw her trip and fall but never saw her hit her head.
     
  7. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    She had a cut on her head, didn't she? It was Morgan who suggested she may have a concussion based on the symptoms she was displaying.
     
  8. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they did not show a scene of her head hitting the road but from the angle of her falling, it is highly likely her forehead hit the pavement.
     
  9. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    She fell forward, which means that she landed on her feet.
     
  10. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    She's actually not really being self contradictory. When she says she doesn't want any more people to die, she means good people who are not a threat. She kills people who are threats. And Morgan, by stopping her from eliminating a threat, is a threat himself. And we're talking about a wolf, so I'm not sure why you are putting *thinks* and *might* in asterisks. The wolf IS a huge threat. He wants to like, you know, kill everybody and such.

    Having said that, do I think Carol executed her plan well? No. They had bigger fish to fry at the moment, and killing each other is a poor choice right then. A better plan would have been to just agree to allow the wolf to live for now, and double check his restraints and make them more secure. Then kill him later when Morgan wasn't there.

    Right now they need to unite, and fight the horde.
     
    #10 Neuropyramidal, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  11. M3O

    M3O Member

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    I was under the impression that she was hurt, but was playing it up so that Morgan wouldn't expect her to make any sudden moves...
     
  12. ChrisQ

    ChrisQ Member

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    I understand Carol's point of view for her actions. That doesn't excuse the fallacy of her statement.

    We all know Carol has a dark side. The entire town is over run with zombies. - and her biggest concern is to try and kill a prisoner that is tied up and locked away. What's more, Morgan is right there and she knew he would try and stop her. Her behavior is completely irrational.

    One could even make the argument that it is her fault, indirectly, that the Wolf escaped. She couldn't leave well enough alone and was the one who brought the knife down into the basement. And she knew she wouldn't be able to get to the Wolf without getting into a fight with Morgan. Plus she was injured on top of it. I swear it's almost like she wanted the Wolf to escape just to prove herself right.
     
  13. CorpseKiller

    CorpseKiller Member

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    Carol was trying to save "her" people. In her mind Morgan is not a part of the group. By this season's time frame, Carol has only known Morgan for 2 or 3 days and if she talked to Michonne at all, she would learn that Morgan tried to kill Rick when they found him in the episode "Clear". Now he is saving the lives of cold blooded killers. This is why she tells Morgan that she does not trust him. As far as she knows he could be working with the Wolves.
     
  14. Zombie_Penguin

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    I think both she and Morgan are equally dumb right now, just like the rest of the group but they are all trying to find their place in this new home, trying to figure out who to stick up for, who to truat and what the hell to do. If they all eventually just hug it out and get on the same page, they might progress, meet in the middle somewhere and move forward.
     
  15. darkrosenberg

    darkrosenberg Member

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    I think Carol is absolutely right in trying to kill that Wolf and Morgan is now being completely foolish especially leaving that Wolf alone with Denise. Seriously even the Cheese Maker would be like wtf Morgan. Yes let's leave this person all alone without defense with a killer and see what magic happens. It feels like the writers are really bending the characters out of shape in order to create tension. I don't know if Carol was concussed or what but she was very much out of character even if she was scared. She's been stone-cold Carol since the minute she walked into ASZ. Morgan's philosophy is to protect all life but it's perfectly alright to not try to protect Denise's life? He was practically feeding her to that wolf. That whole scene with the wolf, Morgan, Carol and then later Tara and Rosita was poorly written and awkwardly executed. It's like the goal was to get the wolf to escape and give him a dispensable prisoner and a gun. The writers didn't seem to care how they got there. Rosita and Tara especially looked like total as*holes giving up their guns in about two seconds flat, even if shooting would have attracted walkers or risked Denise. If I was either one of those actresses, I would have been pissed after reading the script.
     
  16. Walker Caravan

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    Fight fire with fire!

    Sometimes.
     
  17. el_hombre

    el_hombre Member

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    I think Carol's done with Morgan. Carol more than anyone has her head in the game and she sees everything.
    I think she get Morgan's measure when she saw him in action during the wolf invasion and saw his hesitation to kill people that were killing their group.
    I think discovering the captured wolf was the final nail in the coffin as far as her and Morgan were concerned.
     
  18. allrightcoral

    allrightcoral New Member

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    And that's the flaw in "all life is precious". It's a beautiful ideal, and I think the writers are trying to protect it a little, or soften the blow by making Carol appear to waver. People want to believe there's some good in everyone. But there isn't, and when a split decision needs to be made, taking out the guy with the W carved into his forehead laughing and hacking up a woman should be easy. I don't think there's a clearer way to demonstrate psychopathy.

    Carol is still a person and not a psychopath, so of course she struggles with killing when the choice is not so clear. Enough to become emotional when she's being called a monster for doing what's necessary.
     
    #18 allrightcoral, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  19. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    Glenn has a philisophy similiar to Morgans. He believes everyone is redeemable. When escaping Terminus, he releases the psycho in the boxcar instead of leaving him because " That's not who we are." He also believed Nick was redeemable even after he tried to kill him. I dont think we've even seen him take another persons life.
     
  20. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    Carol should have known Morgan for about 2 weeks now. Morgan arrived at ASZ at the night when Pete was killed. After that, Rick and Morgan discovered the quarry pit when they took Pete out for burial. Then, they came up with a plan and setup the hardware. No time span was given but setting up those would take a couple weeks. So, she had ample time to know Morgan's background.

    I am not sure if Morgan has told them that he did not kill the 2 Wolves when he first met them. But they should have known Morgan saving Daryl and Aaron. So, right up to the point of the Wolves attacking ASZ, Morgan's philosophy has not been come into direct conflict with Carol's. And I think she has any reason not to trust him up to that point, especially she should know that he saved Rick back at the early days in Atlanta. She should only started to not trusting him right when their styles had conflict when dealing with the Wolves attacked on yesterday's morning.
     

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