7. too many flashbacks. It made the episode feel disjointed.

 

I disagree. It was one of the few episodes that had an end, beginning, middle, beginning, end, middle, end, beginning, middle, end, beginning, middle, beginning, end, middle, end. and maybe a few I forgot.

 

No Sanctuary" Had a lot of flashbacks, and everyone considers that a great epidode..
But...These were Not flashbacks...let's not get confused here..
All Quentin Tarantino movies are made where the story is told back and forth style, in this sense the story is not told in flashbacks at all, but mearly revealed out of sequence...it's not a flashback at all... It is a very interesting twist to telling a storyline, and takes a lot of skill to do it right....one that has won Tarantino several academy awards..

 

You're right, not a flashback, but then I don't know what the technical term for this type of storytelling would be. I'm glad other people liked it, it just didn't work for me.

 

Some people don't like Tarentino films because of that out of sequence style... Personally, I like it because if done right makes the story a lot more interesting....Like in Pulp Fiction when John Travolta died early in the movie, but because the story was told out of sequence, it made it a lot more interesting to watch him when he came back into the film.

 

I loved this episode. Eugene was funny. Morgan is trying to make Rick human again. All the players were growing. Carol is amazing. Great start to what will be a great season

 

I only gave it a 6.I never was a fan of the jumping around back & forth in time.Maybe my expectations were too high.

 

I liked Pulp Fiction, but in that movie there were several different complete short stories all tied together in some way, and you could see how the characters' lives were interrelated in a bigger tapestry even if they didn't know it at the time. This was just one story that was chopped up and reassembled. To me, it didn't really add anything to do it that way, and it left me feeling that whenever I started to get involved with something, they'd shift away to after whatever was happening, or to before it began. Again, I'm glad you liked it and found it artistic, it just didn't work for me.

 

Gimple also explained on The Talking Dead that they didn't want to tell the straight narrative because there were certain scenes they wanted to overlap between past and present, like Rick telling Morgan that Carter would die and then us flipping to the scene with the herd where he's bitten. They linked other scenes as well, and the technique worked for me.

 

I didnt see Talking Dead... But yeah, that's a great example of why the out of sequence narrative is cool.....I like it because it's a great tool for setting up scenes....

 

Gave it a 10, was more of 9.5 but only because of the black and white. Wasn't a big fan of that. But the first scene at the querry was insane and just the scale of this episode was incredible. Really loved the touch of humor here and there.
Morgan kinda bugged me with his saint-like approach. I get where he's coming from, being all humane and all that but I trust Rick so much with his decisions and I know he gets things wrong too but he's mostly always right and does what needs to be done. I don't know, hope Morgan grows on me because I do like what him and Rick had before.

 

You really don't seem to be getting the point, the idea of a fractured narrative is fine so long as the story suits it. TWD and this episodein particular, is and was far too simple and without the necessary payoff required. Now, if this were something that Gimple had chosen to use over the season where every episode we'd see a little more of the overal twist revealed before the opening credits, it could work quite well. In fact, it worked just fine for Breaking Bad. The key problem being that nothing warranted this nonsense to be used over the course of an episode and slowly destroy what could have been a solid premiere.

As for No Sanctuary, that episode is overrated to high hell and the entire Terminus excursion was just an excuse to have an episode where the main cast run around shooting and stabbing things despite the only actual plot development once again happening at the end of the episode. Just like Too Far Gone, I will never understand how anyone who actually uses the brain they were born with and taught to use can proclaim it to be a 'great episode'.

The flashbacks in that episode were also for the Hunters to give them some backstory which unfortunately, explained nothing except for why they weren't the most moral of people. It did not in any way answer the glaring plot hole as to why they were cannibals if they had been killing and stealing the supplies off of so many survivors and were obviously going out on runs often enough to be able to find not just food, but also guns and ammunition. I can understand the mind-numbingly obvious parallels between Rick's group and the Hunters, it doesn't take a half-wit to see these things, but Gimple's insistance on making parallels for the sole reason as to make a parallel is just silly.

That same rule applies to the ridiculous black and white scenes in First Time Again. I just find Gimple's entire layout for the episode offputting in almost every way possible because there is zero justification nor is there any reason to write, direct and edit an episode in this format. It was something simple that he himself butchered for the sake of some artsy crapso that simpletons could clap their hands and talk about how brilliant he supposedly is.

About your comments on Tarantino, the man often uses that style of film-making because (once again) the story will often fit the bill and can believably work with that style of narrative. First Time Again had no such qualities. People also do no dislike Tarantino films because of their format. While that may ring true about his earlier films, the general consensus is that most people despise Tarantino's later work especially because he has fallen into some terrible habits that repeat with every single film he makes and it has only become more mind-numbingly obvious. The man is too intent on trying to make every "awesome" in every way that he can and he prides himself on overusing brutality and gore at every opportunity possible.

I do like Pulp Fiction but I have zero respect for a director who feels the need to continuously "slam" so many projects simply because he finds them too slow, too boring or too serious. I'm also not a fan of his ridiculous glorification of brutality and racism. Nor do I have any love for Gimple and his pretentious crap and how he and Gimple seem to believe that they're changing the face of television by making an uneven, disjointed and visually hilarious Television episode that even some of the show's most hardcore fans were disappointed by.

I'm also not suprised in the slightest by your love for Tarantino films and First Time Again considering you spent 5 weeks whining and complaining in the FTWD subforum about how slowly paced the show is and how poorly made it was until the Season finale came about and you finally had something to satisfy your rather obvious tastes. Which, there is absolutely nothing wrong with, I just personally think that someone who clearly seems to value action and style over substance shouldn't be trying to continually hold up a discussion about how something is supposedly a piece of art.

 

TGO, I thought you were overly critical of the format, but I just finished rewatching it and you are absolutely right.

All of the black and white sections run chronologically in the past, starting with the, "Now I know this sounds insane, but this is an insane world," being delivered in black and white. The only thing that is being intercut, in color, is putting the plan into action. Eventually we get up to, "Now, I know this sounds insane, but...." being shown again, and then a cut to color of more of the walkers walking and finally the horn in the distance. There is no payoff at all for the disruptive intercutting. None. Nothing.

The black and white sections themselves were internally very jumpy. Now I know the black and white was laying it out chronologically--from the perspectives of different characters--but I didn't grasp that on the first watching. What a mess.

The impact of all of the walkers in the quarry pit was so diluted in black and white. All of the tiny far away walkers just blended in with the rocks.

I can't see anything to admire in this choppy presentation.

I timed each section in two columns, one for color, one for b&w. Unfortunately, my notes are so messy, because I was also tracking what was going on, that it would be a pain to add up the time for each column. But the b&w FAR outweighs the color, and there is no reason for it at all. Just put it in color and run it from start to finish. Viewers could have relaxed and completely immersed themselves into the story.

(I loved the movie Momento. I don't object to time jumps themselves.)

 

First of all, nothing you wrote is factual....your entire post is subjective.....simply, just your opinion.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that you and I do not see things the same way.. I think Horror films,shows are scarier in black & white..it just creates more of a spooky atmosphere..
No Sanctuary and Too Far Gone are episodes that prob 90% of the people on this forum love.. They were both very entertaining and both had great drama, action and emotion..

I love the out of sequence back and forth style of revealing a story.... Yes, unlike the great Tarantino films which use several out of sequence time jumps to bring different groups together to put the complete story together in the end, this episode didn't need it to tell the same story.....but I enjoy the different angle of viewing the story.

Tarantino is a very polarizing film maker.. you either get it or you don't. Sorry if you find him offensive in his brutality and racism, but the reality of it is, that is the real way of the world...So my advise to you would be, deal with it, or don't watch Tarantino films..

As far as FTWD goes...No way around that, it sucked on so many levels as far as telling a story about the ZA goes, compared to TWD.. The final was decent but still pretty hokey..

 

Nothing I wrote in my post was factual? You've been running around the forums calling this the "best opening episode ever" and responding to negative posts by comparing the premiere to works by Nolan and Tarantino which are all far superior to pretty-much anything TWD has ever done or likely ever will do.

The problem with the Black and White has already been stated but as for your personal love for it creating a more spooky atmosphere; no such thing was necessary in this episode because nothing in the scripts was by definition; 'spooky' or should have been as such.

It is also fine that you enjoy that story format but running around claiming that TWD is "fine art" and that it was a brilliant move on Gimple's part is just silly. Viewer count is 2 million less than last year, stock has dropped by 5.1% after the premiere and the general consensus is that the scenes were terrible.

I also have zero idea as to where you are getting these random percentages from but many people on the forum have also discussed their distaste for Too Far Gone and how typically average it is for a TWD episode despite delivering two main cast deaths. The first 23 minutes of the damn thing were spent on filler and the back half of it was spent on cast members shooting at absolutely nothing while the Governor's secondhand redshirt army did the exact same thing. It was honestly like watching Stormtroopers shooting at each other for 20 minutes straight. Let's also not forget that godawful Daryl versus the Tank scene.

Once again, TWD proved in First Time Again that you could realistically fast-forward through the first 40 minutes of the episode and still be around to see the only plot progression that occurs just like they proved as much with Too Far Gone and No Sanctuary.

Saying that "you either get it or you don't" about a Quentyn Tarantino film of all things may just be one of the most ignorant things in this thread. He is a good director and an equally good writer despite his over-glorification of brutality and racism but he is not some kind of otherworldly mastermind who produces a product that only certain people can understand or as you yourself said; "get".

Finally, FTWD may not have been very well though out but the finale was still more widely accepted than the TWD S6 premiere was. Part of that may be because the episodes leading up to it were much less eventful than they were painted to be, but it just goes to show how many people were rather disappointed with First Time Again. Gimple's attempt to be artsy and stylish bombed completely.

 

Yes, you have me convinced...
I would like to apologize for being on a Walking Dead forum thinking the season premier of TWD was very good...and being of the opinion of one who truly enjoyed the other Walking Dead episodes you did not.... And as far as Tarantino goes, that guy sucks.

Also, you are right about there being no place for a spooky atmosphere on a ZA show...... I sure hope Gimple and Nicotero don't read your comments thay might go to the head of AMC and resign in shame..

 

It's fine to say that you liked the premiere, but liking something and outright claiming it's fine art are two different things. Especially wen combined with the fact that you then proceeded to reply to people who disagree by comparing it to something completely unrelated for the sole purpose of ... what, exactly? Trying to change their opinion? I have yet to respond to anyone else in this thread except for you despite there being many people saying that they loved the premiere unlike you who has done exactly that in multiple threads with people who did not.

As for Tarantino, even your sarcasm here has failed you. I actually complimented the man and his abilities despite saying that I strongly dislike some of the things he puts in his films. If you're going to be lazy and respond with sarcasm, learn how to do it correctly.

Last on the list, there was never any mention of there being no room for a spooky atmosphere on TWD, I merely said that the material in First Time Again did not demand it which was exactly what you were saying you love about the use of Black and White in this genre.

 

Your still trying to convince everyone to see things the way you do.. Guess what? Storytelling in a tv show or a movie is an art form, not an exact science.. 10 people will watch the same exact movie and there will be 10 different opinions.. What u love about a show, no matter how great u think it is...someone else hates...

 

I'm sorry, but aren't you the one who's gone into multiple threads now and preached your nonsense about the forums saying your opinions to anyone who makes a post that stands out to you in disagreement? Other than you, I haven't done anything like that; which sadly, renders you a hypocrite.